Close overtakes research

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Mark1978
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Close overtakes research

Post by Mark1978 »

Michael R
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Michael R »

The homicidal motorists who overtake too closely cover the whole range of motorists from boyo-racers to elderly spinsters.

On the back of my car I have a sticker from Nevada, instructing motorists to give cyclists 3ft as "it is the law"
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jezer
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by jezer »

As a regular cyclist since the 50's, my own observation is that these days most motorists do give plenty of room. This is perhaps because more of them are cyclists. There remains a small minority with an attitude problem, who seem determined to punish us for being on their roads. I do live in a rural area, so maybe it's different for commuters in large towns. When driving I do look out for drivers on mobile phones, and when I see them in time I give them a blast on the horn. This may be illegal, but I think it is justified. Last week I saw a young femail chav having an anivated conversation on her phone. I stopped, indicating that she should hang up, to be harangued by the most abusive language I've heard for a long time. Perhaps I was wrong, but why should we put up with this?
Power to the pedals
Dynamite_funk
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Dynamite_funk »

Mark1978 wrote:http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/2013/11/26/overtaking-cyclists/


Very interesting.Thanks for sharing
Pete Owens
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Pete Owens »

What the research fails to take any account of is how constrained the road space was at the point the overtaking was observed.

Commenting that the "average gap" has declined since 1979 is meaningless unless the obserrvations were on the same road.
Postboxer
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Postboxer »

...and cars have got wider haven't they?
AlaninWales
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by AlaninWales »

I find this interesting (not surprising though):
University of Bath wrote:long vehicles such as buses and trucks get closer than cars when overtaking cyclists.
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meic
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by meic »

More so for the back end of them.

My personal theory is that when drivers are overtaking on auto pilot, as many do, their sub-conscious treats cyclists as stationary objects and pulls in again failing to allow for the fact the bike has moved forward as well at the same time.
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Mark1978
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Mark1978 »

meic wrote: their sub-conscious treats cyclists as stationary objects.


Yes; I always thought this, in the drivers mind cyclists are slow = stationary, which is the cause of many a left hook etc.

They also assume that cyclists are effectively zero width.
Ayesha
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Ayesha »

Barking up the wrong tree.

The distance to the passing vehicle was recorded.

What was the distance to the curb, the distance to the lane marker line on the far side of the passing vehicle, and the width of the passing vehicle?

Then some trends can be seen of passing vehicles vs the cyclists distance from the curb, and available lane width vs the vehicle’s width.

Was the cyclist ‘allowing’ the vehicle to take a chance overtaking, or ‘disallowing’ the overtake by restricting the lane width by riding further from the curb?

This additional information, of course, is difficult to record, so a half-hearted survey was done.

IMHO, the results of the more complex study would be of far greater interest to the novice and ‘thinking about it’ cyclist.
AlaninWales
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by AlaninWales »

I do wish people would actually read the study before randomly criticising it. There was no attempt to make the road width or conditions standard and this was deliberate; to do so would falsify the findings.
Walker_2013.pdf wrote:This study gathered data during one of the experimenters’ regular commutes, thereby
studying genuine driver behaviour on real roads. As such, it is important to note that, whilst care
was taken to keep as many variables constant as possible, the study is not a laboratory experiment.
There might be variation in factors such as road width, weather, etc. from one data point to another,
as well as variations that cannot be known, such as driver characteristics. The study does not
attempt to remove these sources of variance, and instead seeks to capture the range of overtaking
proximities that might realistically be seen on a bicycle commute in the south-east of England
during peak traffic hours and, critically, how this range of proximities might change with the rider’s
appearance. To work otherwise would involve studying drivers who are not naïve to the purpose of
the study, and whose behaviour might therefore change to be unrepresentative of their behaviour in
real settings (Walker, 2010).

Variations from one data point to another. These same data points were used repeatedly using "one of the experimenters’ regular commutes" in order to allow comparison between what was deliberately changed - the clothing. The style of cycling was kept constant by using the same cyclist (if it had compared different cyclists in different clothing then the cyclists behaviour would have been a variable).
Geriatrix
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Geriatrix »

The study pretty much confirms personal experience on both upright as well as recumbent, although I suspect I'm more sensitive to close passes on a recumbent.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman
Flinders
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Flinders »

Mark1978 wrote:
meic wrote: their sub-conscious treats cyclists as stationary objects.


Yes; I always thought this, in the drivers mind cyclists are slow = stationary, which is the cause of many a left hook etc.

They also assume that cyclists are effectively zero width.


Drivers assume horses are zero width too. One friend out riding was hit by a van that came so close to her and her horse that it knocked her off, and landed both her and her horse into the hedge further down the road. It hit her so hard on the leg/foot that it broke the stirrup iron. These are made from thick, heavy stainless steel. Luckily she and her horse only suffered minor damage.
Geriatrix
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Geriatrix »

meic wrote:My personal theory is that when drivers are overtaking on auto pilot, as many do, their sub-conscious treats cyclists as stationary objects and pulls in again failing to allow for the fact the bike has moved forward as well at the same time.


That makes up some of the 1 - 2%. The scary ones are those that know they are doing it, and not only think that there's nothing wrong with it, but will shout persecution if any attempt is made to stop them.
http://road.cc/content/news/99576-godfrey-bloom-says-speeding-has-nothing-do-accidents-considers-standing
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman
Mark1978
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Re: Close overtakes research

Post by Mark1978 »

Flinders wrote:Drivers assume horses are zero width too. One friend out riding was hit by a van that came so close to her and her horse that it knocked her off, and landed both her and her horse into the hedge further down the road. It hit her so hard on the leg/foot that it broke the stirrup iron. These are made from thick, heavy stainless steel. Luckily she and her horse only suffered minor damage.


I'm surprised by that. Especially given the recent advertising campaign which urged drivers to treat cyclists as they would horses. Personally when I see a horse on the road I slow right down and pass at <10mph,
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