I Hate Virgin Trains

[Jughead]

I commute most days from Glasgow to Motherwell using the Virgin train from Glasgow to London. One stop instead of the umpteen with the local service which has no cycle space except for the doorwells where you have to maneouvre to let folks on and off. Absolute murder at peak times.

The first time I used Virgin I was knocked back because I hadn't booked my bike on.

The second time I booked and got the bike on the train but nearly ended up in Carlisle as the ticket inspector didn't know I was on the train despite the booking. Scotrail staff refuse to open doors to let bikes off the train at Motherwell because it's a Virgin train. Seriously.

The third time l was booked on but the train manager was annoyed because he had told the Scotrail staff not to book bikes on for one stop only as they were too busy to let the bikes off at Motherwell.

I bought a folder. So far so good. Hold on, today I was told that I had to put my bike in cycle storage.......

I hate Virgin trains. I hate Scotrail as well. Wish I was fit enough to cycle the whole distance after a hard days work!

[TonyR]

To be fair its supposed to be a long distance train not a commuter hop. On the runs into London they often discourage you even getting on as a passenger on the long distance trains that stop at the stations near London to let people off (not just Virgin). They should not be penalising you though over a folding bike unless its one of those full size bikes that just fold in half. Some train companies have restricted for that reason, the wheel size of what counts as a folder.

[EricS]

(...) nearly ended up in Carlisle as the ticket inspector didn't know I was on the train despite the booking. Scotrail staff refuse to open doors to let bikes off the train at Motherwell (...)

This might sound strange but on Virgin Pendolino trains, I have previously been advised that, if there are no platform or train staff around to let me in to get my bike off, I should knock on the driver's door and ask them to do it.

[Mark1978]

It's about 15 miles. Quite a way for a commute but not impossible.

[hexhome]

15 miles but quite a climb.

[Chris the Sheep]

You hate Virgin Trains in the context of trying to take a bike on a 15-mile journey also covered by a commuter service. Their trains just aren't designed for it, especially the Pendolinos where the luggage area can't be accessed by passengers. It's less of an issue on the Voyagers, where the cycle area is in an end vestibule, but still far from ideal.

The fact that the commuter service is also unfriendly to full-size bikes is a pain, but hardly unusual; many trains in the London commuting area don't allow non-folding bikes at all for much of the day.

Regarding folding bikes - their own policy states "However, if it folds up, then it can travel for nothing without reservation". Nothing about wheel sizes etc, but equally nothing about whether it has to go in the luggage van.

Thing is - I don't think the thread title is fair. You (and most other cyclists) hate the fact you can't just take your bike on a train without hassle, and that the current situation has been allowed to develop - but it's not just Virgin Trains. In fact as long as you follow their booking procedure for a longer distance journey they're pretty good (apart from capacity being low); I've found the staff at Preston to be extremely helpful - but then it's a VT-run station. We do have the issue that if we want to go Preston-Warrington, which is about 50 miles, the only direct operator is VT (you can go via Manchester but that's a form of madness). That's a journey that many people do daily by car.

The issue for me is lack of any common standard cycle policy, coupled with the fact it's been the case for decades so very few trains have the capability anyway, and in many areas the trains just aren't big enough (Northern England being a case in point, with its dominance of two-car diesel units).

Oh yes - and the 'general public' view that cyclists are a smug bunch of self-satisfied eco-warriers who go out of their way to get in the way

[Ayesha]

??? who likes them?

TBH, VT come through B'ham New Street. It ain't a good idea to take a bike on VT if there is a green snot special stopper ( London Midland EMU ) on the same route.

[bikepacker]

Maybe the OP should set up his own train company and bid for the franchise. If successful you will be able to run your own trains and take as many bikes as you like. However at the same time you will have to keep in mind that when your trains are delayed by loading and unloading bikes, you are financially penalised. Also by taking on the bikes you may be sacrificing seating space, once again at a financial penalty.
To my mind it is their train set and their rules and should you wish to travel you go by those rules. I don’t use rail travel daily but when I do I rarely have any problems. But then mostly I do go by their rules for taking a bike. As for Virgin Trains I have found them to be very good at interpreting the rules for both sides. I have even travelled with them a few times without a bike reservation and only once had a minor problem but was still allowed on the train.

[[XAP]Bob]

The problem is that the rules aren't known, most often by the staff...

[Richard Fairhurst]

Personally I do try my hardest not to delay the train by being pretty speedy at loading/unloading my bike - even to the extent of smashing a mobile phone once by hurriedly hurling my pannier onto the platform at Pewsey.

But... Virgin's Pendolinos have a pretty big design flaw in that you can't unload your bike unattended; you have to wait for the guard to open the compartment door for you. I can see the logic in only loading a bike with supervision (even though I prefer the FGW way of doing things, where the bike compartment doesn't even have central locking), but not in unloading. I once "caused" a two-minute delay at Stafford for this reason, simply because the guard had forgotten we were unloading our bikes.

FGW's 5-coach Adelantes have a similar approach, but in this case the front bike compartment is directly viewable by the driver, so there's always someone available to assist.

[LollyKat]

Many years ago, in the great days when trains had proper guard's vans and you didn't have to book a space, we once put our tandem on the Edinburgh-London express just for the 20-mile hop to Drem. Now Drem was a small village in East Lothian with a tiny little station, and the train only stopped there because so many members of the Scottish Office lived in the area, including the Secretary of State.

The guard's van was at the end of the train but the platform was too short. We tried to manhandle the tandem (1950s and weighing a ton) down on to the track but couldn't manage it. The driver had to shunt the train forwards until we reached the platform...meanwhile heads were popping out of the windows to see what was going on...

The train staff were very good-natured about it all but we didn't try it again .

[TonyR]

??? who likes them?

Well 175,000 people signed an e-petition to No 10 for them to retain the West Coast Main Line franchise so somebody loves them. And amongst the TOCs they are one of the better ones.

I travel on them a lot with my Brompton without problems. Put it in the racks not the bicycle store and never had a problem. I can see though with anything that folds bigger than a Brompton (i.e. anything that's not a Brompton) it would be difficult to fit in and may lead to the OP's experience.

[Mark1978]

??? who likes them?

Well 175,000 people signed an e-petition to No 10 for them to retain the West Coast Main Line franchise so somebody loves them. And amongst the TOCs they are one of the better ones.

I don't think love is the correct word. Few love Virgin trains, it's more that the hate for First Group is absolute.

[LondonBikeCommuter]

??? who likes them?

I don't personally use Virgin Trains but round here the hatred for Virgin Media is total. Hardly a day goes by without them sending a wad of junk mail. Been going on week in week out for years the bas' tards!

[AlaninWales]

Maybe the OP should set up his own train company and bid for the franchise. If successful you will be able to run your own trains and take as many bikes as you like. However at the same time you will have to keep in mind that when your trains are delayed by loading and unloading bikes, you are financially penalised. Also by taking on the bikes you may be sacrificing seating space, once again at a financial penalty.
To my mind it is their train set and their rules and should you wish to travel you go by those rules. I don’t use rail travel daily but when I do I rarely have any problems. But then mostly I do go by their rules for taking a bike. As for Virgin Trains I have found them to be very good at interpreting the rules for both sides. I have even travelled with them a few times without a bike reservation and only once had a minor problem but was still allowed on the train.

Indeed, the drive to operate rail network as a profit-making sector causes many such issues: Why on Earth would they expect to travel with suitcases - let alone trunks?! As for cycles!?!. And the ones who want to travel from rural stations: Don't they understand that we can only Profit from stuffing trains full for high-cost long distance, centre to centre journeys? They need to get themselves along to our distribution centres and park in our (Profitable franchise) car parks in order for us to make a Profit in stuffing them in overcrowded compartments at times (and to locations) of our choosing: Why would anyone want to do anything else? D@rn these passengers who want to make a journey rather than fitting in as self-loading freight to the Company's profit plan! Let alone those who dare to bring luggage along (don't they have credit cards to buy everything they need at their destination?).
It is an attitude I recognise well (having familly in the railway) and one which led to the Beeching cuts and our dismal situation today: It encourages individual self-reliance for long journeys (such as my trip from West Wales to Hastings and back at the weekend) which results in a car-centric culture, crowded roads, pollution and obesity .