Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

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AndyBSG
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Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby AndyBSG » 12 Feb 2014, 3:33pm

A simple enough title for something that is infinitely complex!

This isn't so much an in depth discussion thread but is more of a bullet point thread of what changes you think will make cycling safer.

Not really looking for pipe dream fantasies such as fully segregated cycle lanes on all conceivable routes but points that are reasonable and would make a real difference and i'll kick it off with my own wish list.

- Harsher, enforced penalties for vehicles in ASL's which are enforced by cameras in the same way speeding and bus lane offences are. At the moment the chance of getting caught stopping in an ASL is so small it's no deterrent. Also, it's only an offence if you enter the and stop in the ASL after the red signal so if the lights change while you're already in there it's OK, this needs to be changed to it being an offence to stop there in the same way it's an offence to stop in the yellow hatched areas on a junction.

- All ASL junctions should have a dedicated set of cyclist signals to give cyclists the head start needed to safely move off ahead of traffic.

- Cycle lanes should be classed as red routes with regards to stopping there. I've seen some good cycle lanes that are basically useless as they're used as car parking areas(the shared use pavement cycle lanes on the A12 at Gant's Hill being a prime example)

- More detailed guidance and enforcement regarding the sentencing of drivers injuring or killing cyclists. Current sentencing is too open to interpretation and is too lenient.

- All cycle lanes should be 'solid white line' lanes banning all vehicles from driving in them(possible exception to buses)

Postboxer
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby Postboxer » 12 Feb 2014, 3:49pm

Higher driving standards

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mjr
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby mjr » 12 Feb 2014, 4:12pm

www.roadjustice.org.uk

I'd agree with all you wrote about enforcing lanes, fixing the ASL law and advance cycle green lights, but I suggest that they're just part of the "protected space" point of www.space4cycling.org - we also need more 20mph zones, No-Through-Motors streets, better routes to schools, liveable high streets and park routes.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bicycler
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby Bicycler » 12 Feb 2014, 4:18pm

AndyBSG wrote:Not really looking for pipe dream fantasies such as fully segregated cycle lanes on all conceivable routes but points that are reasonable and would make a real difference

Segregated cycle lanes adjacent to busy high-speed roads where these roads could provide a useful direct link between towns and villages. Often these a-roads are the flattest and most direct routes.

More alternative traffic free routes, railway routes etc.

Cycles to be considered and provided for when planning new or widening existing roads.

Reducing numbers of 'rat run' through routes where motorists could use a more suitable alternative. In rural areas someone suggested gates and this would allow access to be maintained whilst removing the incentive to shave a few seconds off journey times.

Either widen or remove narrow cycle lanes which encourage unsafe gutter riding

20mph, to be the urban norm

Allow cycle use of all bus lanes and review existing one way systems and where possible allow cycles to travel contraflow thus allowing cyclists to avoid busy urban ring roads and gyratories.

Advertising campaign to bring about greater public awareness of the needs of cyclists, the space they need, why they are 'in the middle of the road' and the need to check mirrors before opening doors.

Presumed liability(!)
Last edited by Bicycler on 12 Feb 2014, 4:28pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mark1978
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby Mark1978 » 12 Feb 2014, 4:25pm

AndyBSG wrote:Not really looking for pipe dream fantasies such as fully segregated cycle lanes on all conceivable routes


Why not? That's not beyond the realms of possibility at all. Obviously you can't have them on *all* routes, that would be silly, but the majority of non-motorway main roads could have a segregated path. They manage it in NL.

The main roads are nearly always the flattest and most direct route between two locations, and a good number have more than enough space for a decent path running alongside. Note it doesn't need to be magnificent, or quick, but if it means you can do 2 miles alongside a busy dual carriageway instead of 6 miles with bags of climbing, then I'll take the dual carriageway.

Of course this means nothing if you're dumped into a busy roundabout at the end.

- Cycle lanes should be classed as red routes with regards to stopping there. I've seen some good cycle lanes that are basically useless as they're used as car parking areas(the shared use pavement cycle lanes on the A12 at Gant's Hill being a prime example)


Absolutely, there's quite a few I've seen on otherwise wide roads where the cycle lanes are used as parking lanes, thus making the situation worse than if the lanes were not there at all.

- All cycle lanes should be 'solid white line' lanes banning all vehicles from driving in them(possible exception to buses)


Yes; but, no exception for buses. Cycles and heavy vehicles do not mix well.

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mjr
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby mjr » 12 Feb 2014, 4:36pm

Mark1978 wrote:Why not? That's not beyond the realms of possibility at all. Obviously you can't have them on *all* routes, that would be silly, but the majority of non-motorway main roads could have a segregated path. They manage it in NL.

I agree - even just a few alongside key barrier roads would help - but how should we overcome this defeatist attitude from officers? "whilst we do all we can to assist cyclists, segregated or cycle friendly features are difficult to justify on such major routes between towns where population is low and there is little use of such facilities"
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bicycler
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby Bicycler » 12 Feb 2014, 4:45pm

Problem is that those are often the only roads in those areas, so essential if certain journeys are ever to be made by cycle. It's not just cycling though, some of these are difficult to walk along and all are impossible to ride a horse along. Perhaps if a parallel path is provided for all non-motorised users, that might work. Otherwise all they have done is create a motorway out of an all purpose road. The difference being that a proper motorway would require alternate provision to be made for non-motorised users

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TrevA
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby TrevA » 12 Feb 2014, 4:57pm

Proper cycling infrastructure - paint is not infrastructutre!

Also, putting up blue signs on existing pavements does not make a cycle facility.

All cycle paths next to roads to have priority over side roads.

Cycle paths to be regularly swept and to be gritted when the roads get gritted.

MartinC
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby MartinC » 12 Feb 2014, 6:18pm

Driver attitude.

ian s
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby ian s » 12 Feb 2014, 8:44pm

I agree, driver attitude first. Rider attitude second, in other words get riders to assert themselves on the road and to get out of the gutter. Lastly, get rid of virtually all shared use cycle paths and any cycle lane alongside a road where the priority for cyclists is less than for other vehicles.

RichardPH
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby RichardPH » 12 Feb 2014, 9:15pm

Cyclists will always be vulnerable and people differ in what makes them feel safe, my own ideal starts with self-help, it's my life after all.

- I wear something bright whenever possible, drivers are on autopilot for a frightening proportion of their journey, I want them to register my presence.
- Do what a cyclist is expected to do, be where they are expected to be, the driver then instinctively knows what I am. This means riding towards the LHS of the road, whatever, this means a safe distance from the kerb to allow countersteer room, but not in the middle of the lane. Drivers could easily misjudge my speed assuming I'm a motor scooter etc if I'm not where they expect me to be.

and as far as the roads are concerned..

- I feel safest when on a quiet lane, no surprise there.
- If it's a busy road then it should have a well defined cycle lane with a reflective paint line, well maintained, no parked vehicles and one that doesn't peter out where it's most needed, at the pinch points, these are where money should be spent to improve the infrastructure.
- Get rid of all shared pedestrian/cycle facilities, these are where I feel least safe, cycles are wheeled vehicles capable of huge speeds relative to foot traffic, they do not belong together, pedestrian lane discipline is abysmal, and lets not talk about the dogs on extendable leads. Crossing side roads from a cycle path is twice as dangerous as being on the road where the cars are legally obliged to give way to traffic going straight ahead.
- Non urban dual carriageways should have a cycle path, as others have said they are less hilly, more direct and help to make the bike a viable way of getting from A>B. Cycling with traffic going 70-80mph is risking instant death and jolly scary.

- lastly, a free adult training facility for cyclists, majoring on how to survive city traffic..

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ArMoRothair
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby ArMoRothair » 12 Feb 2014, 9:18pm

MartinC wrote:Driver attitude.


Employ only Dutch experienced instructors and examiners at the DVLA - let's face it, the Dutch probably speak better English as well.

mr bajokoses
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby mr bajokoses » 12 Feb 2014, 9:50pm

I find it remarkable that installing some decent facilities is a "pipe dream" but changing driver attitudes and increasing enforcement and punishment are seen as entirely practical, simple solutions.

Can anyone point to an example where this approach has resulted in a high modal share for cycling, or exemplary cycling safety?

Jughead
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby Jughead » 12 Feb 2014, 10:33pm

Cyclists need to have a voice in all things planning. It should be law that someone like the CTC (or similar) have input to everything from roads to town layouts. Right from the start and not an afterthought. My council spent £4m renovating a sports centre and didn't even think about providing cycle spaces. A SPORTS CENTRE! :shock:

Psamathe
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Re: Cycling Safety - What Needs To Change?

Postby Psamathe » 12 Feb 2014, 10:34pm

Personal opinion ('cos I'm "novice" having recently started cycling after a 40+ year break):

The more bikes here are out there, the more drivers will be aware of them (and the fewer cars there will be on the roads).
But, the more bikes "swarm" round cars, the harder it will be for drivers to cope (i.e. inside, outside, in front, to rear and changing place ...).
The better facilities provided, the more bikes there will be out there.
The more bikes out there, the easier it will be to get better facilities.
The more such responsibilities are left to politicians the more frustrated cyclists will be through lack of action.

Plus loads of other factors

Ian