101 Police Number Useless?

[gremlin]

Went to my local police station (very large building) to report a dangerous incident on my ride home yesterday afternoon to find that it is no longer open to the public. Thats changed in the last 5 or 6 years since I was last there, Oh well!

I then got home and phoned the 101 number to report the following; cycling home from work a van driver decided to overtake me on a right hand bend with no visibility directly before a T junction about 15 metres away. The driver passed very close as it is a quite narrow road and as often happens would have had no where to go other than into me if an LGV or car had been coming the other way. Seconds later I pulled up alongside the van on the drivers side at the T junction (I think he was turning right) and asked what he was playing at. He had his window up and would not look at me.

With three people in the front of the van I decided to just forget about it, pulled out before he had a chance to, and turned right out onto the busy main road. Approximately 30 metres later I was hit by a large quantity of water/spit, or both from the passenger side of the same van and almost hit the kerb because of the shock. Split seconds later an LGV thundered past me and would no doubt have hit me had I been a less experienced cyclist/road user. This left me a bit shaken up as I contemplated what might have been because of the idiots in the van.

Anyway, the 101 number lady basically told me she would log the details but in a very long winded way she told me nothing more would happen about this incident. I count myself lucky to live and commute in the Swansea area, compared to say London, although I have had plenty of incidents when out and about on my bike. Most have just been oblivious or ignorant drivers, but this incident left me contemplating how lucky I am to be writing this post today. Having been the victim of numerous unsolved vehicle related crimes over the years, this incident and my attempt to report it has left me totally disillusioned with our police and justice service.

Do I just shrug my shoulders and put it down to another experience on the road, or is there anymore I could do to pursue this incident?

I would be grateful for any advice.

[gaz]

Shrug your shoulders and move on.

If you have the registration number and it is genuine then the police could trace the registered keeper of the vehicle.

They could "go and have a word" but the keeper can deny being the driver at the time and claim no knowledge of who the driver was, refuse to identify the passenger, or simply deny the incident occurred at all.

For a previous example, you need get no further than post four on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=53309 . I'd imagine that if it were not for the good quality camera footage of the incident the police investigation would have stopped at post four on the thread as well.

That case did eventually lead to a prosecution and conviction and £400 fine: http://www.bexleytimes.co.uk/news/court ... t_1_963539

Shrug your shoulders and move on.

[thirdcrank]

The simple point about your incident is that in the absence of any decent independent evidence, the police would never have done much about your report, although being able to speak to somebody at the local police station who could have explained that, with reference to the useless CPS, total lck of support from the courts, whatever, possibly with a reassurance that somebody would have a strong word with the driver, might have left you feeling better.

Centralising that with call centres hasn't changed much in that respect.

What has changed is the availability of excellent evidence in the form of miniature camcorders or helmet cameras. The anecdotal evidence here is that the availabilty of this evidence has changed nothing about the way these reports are handled. The example I regularly quote is Martin Porter QC, a lawyer "of the first rank" who only received attention to one of his reports by writing personally to the Director of Public Prosecutions, something which would not have made it past the first WPB had it come from Joe Public.

In short, in the absence of a fatal crash or a casualty who looks as though they are on the way out, nobody in authority is interested in investigating reports of bad driving. (There may be exceptions to prove this rule.)

[dai_t75]

Sorry to hear about your incident, some people really shouldn't be on the road.

I had an incident in September where the passenger of a car leant out of the window to push me off. Luckily I was going slow and didn't actually come off the bike. I managed to get the reg and there was a van coming the other way which stopped. I rang 101 and they seemed to take it pretty seriously. In the end I don't think the witness evidence was that strong (didn't really see the driver/passenger or the incident that clearly), but luckily the driver gave up the name of the passenger. So they rang him and he admitted it and got given a caution.

Suppose my point is without the reg and/or witnesses not sure what else you can do unfortunately.

I am seriously considering getting a camera though. Even if the plod don't seem to take it seriously as evidence at least you will have the reg recorded.

[gremlin]

Thank you for the replies. A Headcam will be my next purchase and I won't waste my time anymore over this, which I guess is just a sign of the times. Like the people in the van I was only trying to get home in one piece!

[thirdcrank]

... I had an incident in September where the passenger of a car leant out of the window to push me off. Luckily I was going slow and didn't actually come off the bike. ....

I'm pleased to hear you were OK but I imagine you felt shaken afterwards. IMO this type of behaviour is particularly unacceptable because it's completely deliberate rather than "only" bad driving and it involves co-operation between the driver and passenger. It's now almost five years since I posted with a suggestion on how this should be tackled, but I've come to know what it's like to stand in the middle of a desert and shout.

viewtopic.php?p=218832#p218832

[661-Pete]

I think it's a postcode lottery. I've had one or two good results with 101 (or rather, its predecessor which was an 0845 number for our local plod only). Some coppers are taking bad behaviour really seriously, others less so.

As regards your unpleasant experience: well, some motorists (I wish I knew what it was in their hormones that made them thus): if you mildly remonstrate with them using ever so polite language, they will go totally berserk. I've had this happen to me. It's just something that tips the scales over: the mildest suggestion that their driving skills may be - well - not quite perfect, is enough to blow out their brains (or lack of). Put it down to experience.

[661-Pete]

I had an incident in September where the passenger of a car leant out of the window to push me off. Luckily I was going slow and didn't actually come off the bike. I managed to get the reg and there was a van coming the other way which stopped. I rang 101 and they seemed to take it pretty seriously. In the end I don't think the witness evidence was that strong (didn't really see the driver/passenger or the incident that clearly), but luckily the driver gave up the name of the passenger. So they rang him and he admitted it and got given a caution.

That is almost identical to an experience of mine, back in 2005 IIRC. A passenger leaned out of his window and punched me on the side of the face. I didn't fall off, luckily, I got the reg. number and, still shaking, called the plod. The driver 'shopped' his passenger (presumably in the hope of avoiding a charge himself), and the passenger came clean and was cautioned by the Police.

[dai_t75]

... I had an incident in September where the passenger of a car leant out of the window to push me off. Luckily I was going slow and didn't actually come off the bike. ....

I'm pleased to hear you were OK but I imagine you felt shaken afterwards. IMO this type of behaviour is particularly unacceptable because it's completely deliberate rather than "only" bad driving and it involves co-operation between the driver and passenger. It's now almost five years since I posted with a suggestion on how this should be tackled, but I've come to know what it's like to stand in the middle of a desert and shout.

viewtopic.php?p=218832#p218832

Yes, I was very shaken up at the time. The most annoying thing was the driver got away scot free - originally the driver had said he wasn't even in the area. Surely the passenger admitting the offence shows the driver was lying to the police? I questioned this with the officer and he said it was 'on his record for the future' but didn't get an actual caution - looking back I wish I had pushed a bit harder to get the driver a caution as well, because like you said the deliberate slow and close driving is far more worrying (to me at least) than the idiot hanging out of it.

[thirdcrank]

... Yes, I was very shaken up at the time. The most annoying thing was the driver got away scot free - originally the driver had said he wasn't even in the area. Surely the passenger admitting the offence shows the driver was lying to the police? I questioned this with the officer and he said it was 'on his record for the future' but didn't get an actual caution - looking back I wish I had pushed a bit harder to get the driver a caution as well, because like you said the deliberate slow and close driving is far more worrying (to me at least) than the idiot hanging out of it.

The evidential side of something like this isn't necessarily easy. The keeper of the vehicle can be required to provide information about the ID of the driver for a careless driving offence, but not something like assault, and nobody is under any obligation to ID the passenger in a case like this. Even if the driver did name the passenger, they would almost certainly be treated as accomplices and the evidence of one against the other would require corroboration. If a stage were to be reached where the ID was somehow almost nailed on but denied, then ID parades might be necessary.

This is all part of the reason why I suggest that the s59 procedure linked above might be effective. It seems to be intended for cases where the use of a vehicle is "antisocial."

[snibgo]

I've used 101 twice.

The first time was to report a witnessed assault on me. This eventually resulted in a guilty plea with jail time.

The second was when I was very concerned about someone's safety but wasn't in a position to do anything myself. There wasn't an immediate threat to life but I feared there might be within a few hours. The police arrived a few minutes later and resolved the situation.

In my experience, the 101 system works fine. But I fully understand the frustration people have when reporting dangerous driving.

[fluffybunnyuk]

I disagree, 101 is a useful service for filing the incident, besides, it keeps people in employment. Expectation that it will be acted upon is another thing entirely.

I filed a complaint 3 months ago, the details arnt worth repeating here, however it wasnt until people from the London Assembly, and others took an interest that it was actually investigated. As soon as I suggested Id be talking to the press amazingly I had a call back that same day!!! Boris Johnson is still running scared of commenting though.

Interestingly Im still waiting to hear the outcome...

I feel sure the police take your complaint seriously, and when the suns burned down to ash they will get round to investigating it. In the meantime, move on, and get back to enjoying life.

Emma

[mark1964]

It's worked for me. I have on three occasions used it to report illegal motorbikes being ridden on the Bristol Railway Path. On these occasions, my complaint has always been followed up by a visist from a PC or PCSO. So yes, use it.

[Mark1978]

Was reading this article today about how the police never do anything about this : http://www.happycyclist.org/?p=756

[MrHappyCyclist]

My most recent complaint was dealt with seriously by the police and the driver will be doing a driver improvement course to avoid being prosecuted for driving without due care & attention. Video evidence was crucial in this. http://youtu.be/2stZwH7yXlY