Narrow roads and wing mirrors

[A1anP]

I've been wondering about this for a while, following a close brush with two wing mirrors a few months ago, but is it possible to remain on your bike if you (or your handlebar) gets hit by the wing mirror of an oncoming car?

It happened on a quiet country road a few miles from my house. The road is about 8 or 9 feet wide - two cars can't pass without both of them using the grass verge. This would be rare though, as it's unusual to see more than 2 or 3 cars in an hour. Normally oncoming cars slow down and we pass safely, with a wave. On this day, a white van came towards me and my wife (she was maybe 50 yards behind). He was going at least 40 or 50 mph, but didn't slow down at all or change his road position (I was about 1 foot from the edge of the tarmac, giving him as much room as possible). His wing mirror passed over the end of my right handlebar and I felt the wind rush by as it very nearly contacted my right shoulder. Then a small car, probably following, did exactly the same. I held on really tight, preparing for impact with the wing mirror, this one was at the same level as my handlebar, but luckily it missed by a fraction.

I just wonder what would have happened if I hadn't been so lucky. Presumably the mirror would bend back but would I have been able to stay upright? My wife meanwhile rode off the road onto the verge. In retrospect, that would probably have been more sensible than bracing for impact. I bet these drivers barely gave it a moment's notice, but it really put the willies up me!

[Psamathe]

I have no knowledge, no experience, no training, just opinion. And, at that speed I would guess very serious injury.

And whilst wing mirrors are often sprung, the force required to spring them back it quite high. But just think of the mirror itself (i.e. it's own mass with no spring resisting it being deflected), no vehicle attached hitting you are even just 30 m.p.h. ...

(And I hope I am wrong 'cos it gets quite scary).

Ian

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Several year ago on a narrow lane a gravel truck came at me and I ducked, there was never room to pass safely and the duck was so I was'nt decappitated

I will tell what I do to stay alive, if a mirror hit you or your bike bars, from behind, your bike would turn left but lean right and you would fall into the road to be minced by the tailgating Merc driver
If they come from in front you either chicken or take your place 3 - 4 feet from the kerb and THEN SOME, most will slow realising that they cant drive through you (or they will find it hard to drive over you) , some will leave it late but will sacrifice their car wing in hedge or stop PDQ.
I.M.O. It is the only way to survive, no amount of waving, bending over, flashing lights and extra flourecent glow will keep you alive, this has been proven by out of touch Judges who must really hate all of us healthy green bikers.

[horizon]

All our local roads bar the main one are single lane. There's room for the bike and car, how much room depending on exactly which bit of each road. To prevent exactly the situation you describe I ride in the middle of the road. The default position is that the car stops completely while I slowly and safely pass. So I wait, patiently and politely, until the car is fully stopped until I attempt to pass. Of course there is occasionally some huffing and puffing on the part of the driver but they know that I'm not going to move until they are stopped still. Basic manners (never mind the explicit Highway Code rule) would dictate that they wait to ensure that I am not snagged in their wheel arch or in the hedgerow.

155

Single-track roads. These are only wide enough for one vehicle. They may have special passing places. If you see a vehicle coming towards you, or the driver behind wants to overtake, pull into a passing place on your left, or wait opposite a passing place on your right. Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can. If necessary, reverse until you reach a passing place to let the other vehicle pass. Slow down when passing pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders.

Note that a bicycle is a vehicle.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

All our local roads bar the main one are single lane. There's room for the bike and car, how much room depending on exactly which bit of each road. To prevent exactly the situation you describe I ride in the middle of the road. The default position is that the car stops completely while I slowly and safely pass. So I wait, patiently and politely, until the car is fully stopped until I attempt to pass. Of course there is occasionally some huffing and puffing on the part of the driver but they know that I'm not going to move until they are stopped still. Basic manners (never mind the explicit Highway Code rule) would dictate that they wait to ensure that I am not snagged in their wheel arch or in the hedgerow.

+1 Thats the only way......................................

[A1anP]

I see, the answer is either to chicken out or play chicken! I have ridden on some proper single track lanes in the Higlands, where the oncoming driver is in no doubt that the only option is to stop. The extra foot or two of tarmac on the road in question makes it more tricky. I could tell in advance that these two vehicles were coming much quicker than is usual on these roads and that they probably weren't local, so forcing them to stop would almost certainly have opened us up to some abuse.

I guess I need to grow a pair

[Postboxer]

Go top speed and hit a wing mirror with your handlebars, I think it would be tricky but not impossible to stay on, it would depend on the amount of contact and on the particular mirror. Wasn't James Cracknell hit by a mirror?

[Bicycler]

I see, the answer is either to chicken out or play chicken!

Maybe not going as far as chicken. It would always be in the back of my mind that the driver would win the game. In reality drivers are generally not homicidal maniacs and will slow to an appropriate speed (which may be zero speed or a slow speed where the road is a bit wider). Most aren't even intentionally passing too fast and close, they just see a gap, know they can fit through it and don't consider other factors. Once their speed is acceptable you can move to the side if there's adequate passing space.

Just in case you have any reservations that this is holding someone up or being anti-social. A driver is obliged to pass cyclists leaving a suitable clearance and at an appropriate speed. If would be done anyway, your position on the road ahead will be irrelevant, as you will have time to pull to the side as the car slowly passes. You are only deterring drivers from continuing on past you at an unsafe speed or distance, so you are in no way unnecessarily impeding any driver.

[A1anP]

Bicycler - that does sound reasonable and a sensible way to approach it. Must go out this afternoon and hope that the road isn't as deserted as usual so I can get some practise

[mjr]

I've been wondering about this for a while, following a close brush with two wing mirrors a few months ago, but is it possible to remain on your bike if you (or your handlebar) gets hit by the wing mirror of an oncoming car?

I doubt it. I've been clipped once by an overtaking car (driver fiddling with screen-mounted satnav, not paying attention) and stayed on fairly easily; and I've clipped a badly-sited traffic light post (which wasn't moving!) and only just stayed up. I think the extra relative speed of an oncoming car would be enough to take me down in almost all scenarios. The only time I've met an oncoming car failing to give room (swinging wide around a blind bend, no less!), I bailed out into a hedge: if they drive like that much, they won't be driving any more after they meet a car.

[Vorpal]

I don't get that close to cars if I can help it. My solution is also to ride right in the middle. A bicycle is a vehicle, and should be operated that way.

I don't necessarily wait for the car to stop, though. Just slow enough that passing each other is safe.

[BeeKeeper]

We have lots of single track roads around here with passing places. My technique if I see a car coming fast towards me and not slowing down is to deliberately steer into the middle of the road and stare at the driver. To date they have all slowed down although a few look a bit offended!

The same also applies when cars come up behind me, take the middle of the road until the next passing place and I then slow down and pull over to let them pass. It usually gets a wave.

I find my own wing mirror on the bike very useful in the narrow lanes. Before I got it I once pulled over to let what I thought was one vehicle past and then as I started to move on I found a second vehicle shot past. Scared the wotsits out of me! Of course you can't rely on the mirror alone but I find it a useful additional safety aid.

[horizon]

My technique if I see a car coming fast towards me and not slowing down is to deliberately steer into the middle of the road and stare at the driver. To date they have all slowed down although a few look a bit offended!

It sounds very dramatic and dangerous and, yes, like playing chicken. But in reality it isn't. I am sure that BeeKeeper is a respectable citizen like myself: we don't do this for laughs or to put ourselves or anyone else in danger. In the actual circumstances it is obvious and natural for the car to stop and allow the cycle to pass. It is just as natural to request this by remaining in the middle of the road. The only thing that isn't natural is that neither cyclists nor drivers are ever taught to do this polite, safe, considerate, efficient, speedy manoeuvre. If the rules of the road don't exist we have to create them: every driver who experiences this manoeuvre is one more driver educated and happy.

[Tigerbiten]

One advantage of my recumbent trike is it's extra width on a single-track road.
This make it a lot easier to ride down the middle and "ask" cars to slow down.
Once they've slowed down to what I think is a safe speed, I'll pull over more towards the edge to let them past.
I alway give the driver a wave to say "thank you" for slowing down.
I've even had WVM backup 100 yards to find a passing place to let ne passed when the road had hedges both sides ..........

[Bicycler]

The only thing that isn't natural is that neither cyclists nor drivers are ever taught to do this polite, safe, considerate, efficient, speedy manoeuvre. If the rules of the road don't exist we have to create them: every driver who experiences this manoeuvre is one more driver educated and happy.

You'll be pleased to know it's in Cyclecraft as recommended practice, so hopefully some cyclists are taught that. I hope motorcyclists are taught something similar.