When is close too close?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Krellon
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When is close too close?

Post by Krellon »

Hi,

I wondered what your thoughts were on acceptable vehicle passes and when is close too close.

I had a few in the past on my commutes which I thought were maybe a little too close. Especially considering the speed they were doing.

Here is a link to some of those passes. What do you think?

http://youtu.be/77-5-IPF-jk

Br
Phil Fouracre
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by Phil Fouracre »

Blimey! I thought I had problems, them's some scary passes. Only thing I thought, seeing them was I would ride further out, but, each to their own
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Krellon
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by Krellon »

Phil Fouracre wrote:Blimey! I thought I had problems, them's some scary passes. Only thing I thought, seeing them was I would ride further out, but, each to their own


I try to be as considerate a I can when on main roads so don't try and go out too far. Most drivers respect and give a wide birth but every once in a while you get the odd loon who cuts it a bit fine.

Br
irc
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by irc »

Too many close passes. No use being considerate if it means you are so close to the kerb there is no room to move left to avoid a close pass.

Look at the lane width. There isn't safe room for a car and a bike. So cars need to overtake properly. A rider needs to ride far enough out to prevent drivers failing to overtake properly.

closepass.jpg
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mjr
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by mjr »

Seriously: there's a difference between considerate and dangerous, even if the person you're putting most in danger is yourself. Please please please either take the lane, or (as a last resort) don't ride that road. If you get harassed, report it to the local police. They seem keener on road rage camera reports than close-pass ones.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

left hand tyre track is normally a good starting point. either there is enough room to overtake safely (and you taking that positiin makes no dufference) or there isn't - and there should be no question about squeezing past.

Consideration includes your own safety, in fact the safety of all road users comes abive the convenience of any...
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by Vorpal »

Krellon wrote:I try to be as considerate a I can when on main roads so don't try and go out too far. Most drivers respect and give a wide birth but every once in a while you get the odd loon who cuts it a bit fine.

Br


I suggest riding a little further out from the edge or kerb. I generally ride about one metre from the edge, though if the shoulder is paved, or the lane is wide, I may use the edge of the shoulder to mark the 1 metre. At pinch points and junctions, I ride in the middle of the lane.

Riding closer to the edge makes no difference in possibilities to overtake safely, and will prevent people from squeezing past where there isn't room to overtake safely.

It won't prevent people from overtaking too closely, but it should reduces the number of drivers who do so.

p.s. please don't take this as blaming you for drivers doing stupid things. But it is something you can do that may help prevent it.
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Krellon
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by Krellon »

irc wrote:Too many close passes. No use being considerate if it means you are so close to the kerb there is no room to move left to avoid a close pass.

Look at the lane width. There isn't safe room for a car and a bike. So cars need to overtake properly. A rider needs to ride far enough out to prevent drivers failing to overtake properly.

closepass.jpg


What I see when riding further out is cars overtaking into oncoming traffic.

In this shot I am about 30% into my lane due to road conditions. The driver overtakes me in a right hand turn on a slight brow of a hill.

http://youtu.be/hzjk9TCm8GA

I think if a driver is hell bent on passing, he's going to do it regardless over where the cyclist is. Only he will now go further into the oncoming lane.

To be fair to drivers, Most of the time they do drive sensibly. It's only a minority that cause dangers.

Br
Krellon
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by Krellon »

Vorpal wrote:
Krellon wrote:I try to be as considerate a I can when on main roads so don't try and go out too far. Most drivers respect and give a wide birth but every once in a while you get the odd loon who cuts it a bit fine.

Br


I suggest riding a little further out from the edge or kerb. I generally ride about one metre from the edge, though if the shoulder is paved, or the lane is wide, I may use the edge of the shoulder to mark the 1 metre. At pinch points and junctions, I ride in the middle of the lane.

Riding closer to the edge makes no difference in possibilities to overtake safely, and will prevent people from squeezing past where there isn't room to overtake safely.

It won't prevent people from overtaking too closely, but it should reduces the number of drivers who do so.

p.s. please don't take this as blaming you for drivers doing stupid things. But it is something you can do that may help prevent it.


Hi Vorpal, no probs. I take every bit of feedback constructively :D It only aids in making us better right :P

In the last week I bought a second camera. I have it rear facing and attached to my right hand drop bar. Since installing it, only a week I know but I have seen a massive difference in driver attitudes when overtaking!. You still get the odd plonk but the majority really do give a much wider birth.

Br
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by eileithyia »

I agree I would ride a little further out, again would not prevent all close passes, but gives you a bit more space on your left to move / wobble into esp when overtaken so closely by that bus. It also means you are on a line to avoid broken drains, debris etc., without swinging out suddenly / or being driven into them by close overtaking traffic.

They were close passes but over what sort time line? I get close passes like that in varying amounts during in a week, but then pro-rata I have already clocked up 2300 miles this year often at very busy times of the day so I guess some of them are to be expected given the weight of traffic I cycle in some days.

PS what cameras are you using?
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Krellon
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by Krellon »

eileithyia wrote:I agree I would ride a little further out, again would not prevent all close passes, but gives you a bit more space on your left to move / wobble into esp when overtaken so closely by that bus. It also means you are on a line to avoid broken drains, debris etc., without swinging out suddenly / or being driven into them by close overtaking traffic.

They were close passes but over what sort time line? I get close passes like that in varying amounts during in a week, but then pro-rata I have already clocked up 2300 miles this year often at very busy times of the day so I guess some of them are to be expected given the weight of traffic I cycle in some days.

PS what cameras are you using?


Hi eileithyia,

The time line is about 6-8 weeks. I do about 200 miles a week commuting and riding for fun.
The camera are both GoPro's I have a standard Hero 3 and the recent buy is a Hero 3+

Br
RichardPH
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by RichardPH »

A road like that deserves to have some sort of cycle facility, it's just a matter of time before somebody gets their judgement wrong and you suffer. I'd lay odds the person getting it wrong will be driving a bus, they are the worst for sure, probably because they are forced to drive ambitiously by a tight timetable. The bus in your video was the one that made me take a sharp intake..
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661-Pete
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by 661-Pete »

Ride further out? This is a controversial matter, especially on a rural road with (presumably) 60mph speed limit. I don't think there's a straightforward answer.

Your position close to the verge certainly looks too close from the point of view of someone mainly accustomed to urban cycling, but I'm not one of those: most of my cycling is rural. I can understand the situation.

In France, I have noticed that cyclists, road cyclists especially, often keep very close to the side, when riding on busy (and fast) N and D roads. And they get passed pretty close by most cars, in consequence (not by me!). They seem to be mostly comfortable about this. Certainly I have never seen a French cyclist gesticulating or shouting at a French motorist. I wonder how it really works over there. When in France we prefer to keep to narrow, minor roads, but then we often run into poor surfaces or get plagued by dogs.

I suppose the crucial point is, did you feel yourself in danger at the time of these close passes?
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661-Pete
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by 661-Pete »

RichardPH wrote:A road like that deserves to have some sort of cycle facility, it's just a matter of time before somebody gets their judgement wrong and you suffer. I'd lay odds the person getting it wrong will be driving a bus, they are the worst for sure, probably because they are forced to drive ambitiously by a tight timetable. The bus in your video was the one that made me take a sharp intake..

That's not practicable in the UK. There are thousands of miles of such roads, and to provide a cycle path alongside every one would be prohibitive in cost. Moreover, I know of some examples of cycle paths alongside rural roads, and they are often of poor quality: strewn with brambles, poorly maintained and criss-crossed by private drives and farm tracks etc.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
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ukdodger
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Re: When is close too close?

Post by ukdodger »

Krellon wrote:Hi,

I wondered what your thoughts were on acceptable vehicle passes and when is close too close.

I had a few in the past on my commutes which I thought were maybe a little too close. Especially considering the speed they were doing.

Here is a link to some of those passes. What do you think?

http://youtu.be/77-5-IPF-jk

Br


But you're slowing them up. You have no right to be there. They might have had to change down. Dont you realise :shock:
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