A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10801
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Cunobelin »

drossall wrote:I've mentioned it before, but the same thing happened with rear lights, of course. The CTC was worried about their introduction at the time, not because of lights per se, but because the bar would be raised in the same way. Lights were intended to give cyclists extra safety, but would quickly become simply something that they had to have to be regarded as visible at all.

You'd be pushed to find anyone, even on here, who would now talk about lights in the terms in which Si wrote about clothing, but there's a case for doing so.

As others have said, none of this is arguing against cyclists using lights and visible clothing; it's just an argument that measures to gain extra visibility should be regarded as giving extra visibility.



THis is often misunderstood.

The change was from th driver having a responsibility to see a cyclist to a cyclist becoming responsible for being seen by the motorist.
User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10801
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Cunobelin »

Slightly oT...


We used to have a friend who was a very pretty 5'8" blonde and she always reckoned thatthe best visibility aid was a short skirt!

Anecdotally she used to find that a short skirt meant that more drivers appeared to see her, overtook wider and more slowly.

At junctions drivers used to wait and then watch her cross before moving out.

Far more effective than HiViz, but as a 6'2" bearded bloke in his 50 this may not work for me
User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 10593
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by 661-Pete »

Cunobelin wrote:Far more effective than HiViz, but as a 6'2" bearded bloke in his 50 this may not work for me

Kilt, maybe? :roll:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
irc
Posts: 5189
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by irc »

Cunobelin wrote:Far more effective than HiViz, but as a 6'2" bearded bloke in his 50 this may not work for me


You won't know unless you try.
drossall
Posts: 6107
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by drossall »

Cunobelin wrote:Slightly oT...

We used to have a friend who was a very pretty 5'8" blonde and she always reckoned thatthe best visibility aid was a short skirt!

Anecdotally she used to find that a short skirt meant that more drivers appeared to see her, overtook wider and more slowly.

At junctions drivers used to wait and then watch her cross before moving out.

Far more effective than HiViz, but as a 6'2" bearded bloke in his 50 this may not work for me


No, but the idea is being picked up in the mainstream. The current AA advert gives you something you could do.

I think it's useful to distinguish between visibility and being noticed/seen. Visibility is something done by the person being observed, and is clearly not increased by short skirts, or indeed by the lack of any skirt at all, as in the AA video, because flesh tones are not known for their hi-vis properties. Noticing is something done by the observer, and flesh helps a lot with that... As I've mentioned before, it's the same distinction as between employability and getting a job; the first helps the second, but doesn't ultimately determine it.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Cunobelin wrote:Slightly oT...


We used to have a friend who was a very pretty 5'8" blonde and she always reckoned thatthe best visibility aid was a short skirt!

Anecdotally she used to find that a short skirt meant that more drivers appeared to see her, overtook wider and more slowly.

At junctions drivers used to wait and then watch her cross before moving out.

Far more effective than HiViz, but as a 6'2" bearded bloke in his 50 this may not work for me


Can be quite distracting when riding a 'bent.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Cyril Haearn
Posts: 15215
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.

That might have been 20mph or less in this case. The slower the better. Ever seen a "minimum speed limit" sign?

My suggestion for visible car colours: all nasty "sports cars" should be repainted in bright seasick green or yellow and adorned with figures from the magic roundabout.

But if the police acted there would be no need for repainting, all the "sports car" drivers would be banned.

Chwarae teg!
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
User avatar
RickH
Posts: 5832
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by RickH »

Cyril Haearn wrote:Ever seen a "minimum speed limit" sign?

Here's one (Google StreetView) - on the northern approach to the New Blackwall tunnel. :D

But I will admit they are quite rare beasts.

Rick.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by TonyR »

Cunobelin wrote:Far more effective than HiViz, but as a 6'2" bearded bloke in his 50 this may not work for me


I don't know. I reckon a 6'2" bearded bloke in his fifties wearing a mini skirt would get a pretty wide berth from most motorists. :shock:
TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by TonyR »

From a quick scan through no-one seems to have pointed out the only piece of research on visibility and cyclist safety which found that it didn't make any difference to drivers behaviour. So wearing hi-viz may make you feel safer but doesn't actually make you safer. Which would fit with the observation that the French law making hi-viz mandatory for cyclists outside of built up areas had zero impact on their cyclist death and injury figures.
Last edited by TonyR on 21 Mar 2014, 7:49pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ellieb
Posts: 905
Joined: 26 Jul 2008, 7:06pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Ellieb »

The above research was only about close overtakes. Ie it is assumed that the cyclist has already been seen & how clothing affects behaviour. It isn't really about conspicuity.
Adam S
Posts: 606
Joined: 15 Nov 2012, 8:53pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Adam S »

So is it safe to assume that a motorist who didn't bother to look for the cyclists properly in the first place would see a cyclist in hi-vis?
TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by TonyR »

Ellieb wrote:The above research was only about close overtakes. Ie it is assumed that the cyclist has already been seen & how clothing affects behaviour. It isn't really about conspicuity.


It assumed no such thing - it just measured how a random selection of motorists behaved.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

High vis is really useful on railways, where stopping distance is measured in miles, and steering isn't an option.
Very distant identification isn't useful on a road, where stopping distances are short and long range visibility is often non existant due to corners.
There is probably some benefit in terms of alertness on motorways for road workers, since pedestrians are unexpected in that environment (particularly where cones are out)


As to whether high vis provides any benefit above vehicle reflectors/lights I'm really not convinced...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
Audax67
Posts: 5999
Joined: 25 Aug 2011, 9:02am
Location: Alsace, France
Contact:

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Audax67 »

I don't wear hi-viz during the day, but I do wear predominantly yellow jerseys. Belting round dressed like Zorro makes no sense, even without the cape. Legal compulsion, though? Nyet.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
Post Reply