A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Post Reply
drossall
Posts: 6106
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by drossall »

As has been mentioned before, hi-vis is only really useful during the day. You need reflectives at night, which are different.
Tonyf33
Posts: 3926
Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Tonyf33 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:High vis is really useful on railways, where stopping distance is measured in miles, and steering isn't an option.
Very distant identification isn't useful on a road, where stopping distances are short and long range visibility is often non existant due to corners.
There is probably some benefit in terms of alertness on motorways for road workers, since pedestrians are unexpected in that environment (particularly where cones are out)
As to whether high vis provides any benefit above vehicle reflectors/lights I'm really not convinced...


just this morning I'd been in conversation with a Hertfordshire highways clerk who was checking the depth of the ironworks against the new road surface and he said you wouldn't believe the amount of incidents where people still manage to drive into them/hit bollards etc, his latest one was a cyclist riding into one of his colleagues during the day (cyclist coming off very much the worst apparently) to which they now rib & have a laugh at the worker for not being hi-vis enough despite being head to toe in the stuff.

He totally agreed that people's innattentiveness, micturate poor attitude & lack of road sense/inability to understand hazards was the overiding factor for 99% of incidents, he also thought H@@@@@S were a nonsense too 8)
User avatar
PaulCumbria
Posts: 461
Joined: 23 Mar 2012, 1:52pm
Location: Kendal

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by PaulCumbria »

mjr wrote:Is there really much difference between saying you think it's clever to wear it and saying you think others should wear it?

To me, this is the crux of the matter. I'm increasingly of the opinion that, if we look at what works for very safe cycling nations (i.e. nothing special at all), then the best approach is to not say anything at all about the decisions we individually take on clothing and lights, but just to get on with it.

I use a mirror, lights that turn on automatically in dull conditions and other 'safety' equipment, but even mentioning them sounds like I'm lecturing others on what they 'should' do. To mention them in the context presented by the OP is also to completely misdirect the blame, of course.

Ultimately, in the absence of any genuine attempt to build the safe cycling infrastructure that's a prerequisite to getting lots of people on bikes, the desperate measures we take to fractionally increase our own safety are pretty much an irrelevance.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

I use a pair of mirrors, and would heartily recommend them.
I also use dynamo lights, and recommend those as well...
Mudguards too...


But the difference is that I see these as vehicle improvements, they're not specialist kit, they're just ways to improve a ride. Once fitted they are just there, it makes a cycle as convenient as a car to use (no need to think about what time it is etc)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10801
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Cunobelin »

Next time you go to Tesco / Asda / Waitrose / Coop / Morrisons etc will you wear a HiViz vest to walk from the car to the shop

After all there is a formal risk assessment in all of these cases that say the car park is dangerous and HViz is necessary.

If a site requires PPE for safety then ALL users of that site should be wearing it. You don't have building sites which differentiate..... hard hat, boots etc apply to all whether they be visitors, employees or delivery men

Why is a customer going to be seen in the supermarket car park, but an employee not?

It is about time that these customers took their safety seriously and complied with the same standards

Can we have a national campaign pleading for HiViz in supermarket car parks please
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by mjr »

I shop at stores where you don't have to cross the car park to get in from the bike park :-) so I wholeheartedly support your campaign :twisted:
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
jezer
Posts: 1581
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 5:16pm
Location: North Wiltshire

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by jezer »

I do voluntary work at our local hospice which is situated in a quiet country village. It has an initiative at the moment with the village junior school, where pupils visit on a regular basis. All well and good. I was there last Thursday at the same time as the children, all of whom were wearing hi-viz jackets within the building. Well, I suppose all those patients speeding in their wheelchairs do pose a risk :shock:
Power to the pedals
User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10801
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Cunobelin »

jezer wrote:I do voluntary work at our local hospice which is situated in a quiet country village. It has an initiative at the moment with the village junior school, where pupils visit on a regular basis. All well and good. I was there last Thursday at the same time as the children, all of whom were wearing hi-viz jackets within the building. Well, I suppose all those patients speeding in their wheelchairs do pose a risk :shock:


Absolutely, unless you run a child over centrally, the child's body can raise one side of the wheelchair causing it to tip over
User avatar
RickH
Posts: 5832
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by RickH »

jezer wrote:I do voluntary work at our local hospice which is situated in a quiet country village. It has an initiative at the moment with the village junior school, where pupils visit on a regular basis. All well and good. I was there last Thursday at the same time as the children, all of whom were wearing hi-viz jackets within the building. Well, I suppose all those patients speeding in their wheelchairs do pose a risk :shock:

I suspect the actual case is that, whether or not there is any increase in safety from wearing the hi-vis while out and about, it definitely makes it easier for the teachers to spot where the children in their care are. It may be policy (school? Local Authority?) to wear hi-vis when outside walking along roads, assuming they walked there, and is easier for them to carry on wearing it than taking it off them, storing them somewhere & then getting them back into the hi-vis with the effort & loss of otherwise useful time.

Rick.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
Tonyf33
Posts: 3926
Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Tonyf33 »

RickH wrote:
jezer wrote:I do voluntary work at our local hospice which is situated in a quiet country village. It has an initiative at the moment with the village junior school, where pupils visit on a regular basis. All well and good. I was there last Thursday at the same time as the children, all of whom were wearing hi-viz jackets within the building. Well, I suppose all those patients speeding in their wheelchairs do pose a risk :shock:

I suspect the actual case is that, whether or not there is any increase in safety from wearing the hi-vis while out and about, it definitely makes it easier for the teachers to spot where the children in their care are. It may be policy (school? Local Authority?) to wear hi-vis when outside walking along roads, assuming they walked there, and is easier for them to carry on wearing it than taking it off them, storing them somewhere & then getting them back into the hi-vis with the effort & loss of otherwise useful time.

Rick.


What, walking from school to somewhere else during the day...okay then..I'd hate for any teacher to be in charge of children if they couldn't see the children if dressed ordinarily..say in their school uniforms.. :roll:
User avatar
rudge
Posts: 67
Joined: 21 Dec 2011, 8:07am

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by rudge »

ian s wrote:Slightly off the main point of this thread, but mentioned here is the difference in visibility of flashing versus steady lights. My back light flashes quite fast, and it has been observed to me that it is very noticeable, whereas some flash much more slowly, with a significant off time between flashes. I do wonder if the studies concerning flashing versus steady lights have also studied the different flash frequencies.


As I tried to explain above, not very clearly, I find flashing lights bewildering. I can locate a steady light more quickly and be aware of exactly where on the road the cyclist is, which is what I need to know if I am driving a car. I wondered if others have the same negative response to flashing lights.

I am not sure about headlamps, either. The momentary reaction "what on earth is that?" is an unhelpful distraction. Straightforward, bright, steady lights at the conventional level is what I find useful in relating to other cyclists, whether I am cycling or driving at the time, and that is what I try to provide for others to see me.

Now finding a front lamp that both warns others of my presence (easy enough) and illuminates the road (much more difficult) is annother matter, but that really is off the point of this thread.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

OT as a single light I agree, but you are never a single light - you need to be seen, and from the rear at least identified as a relatively slow vehicle, in amongst a sea of lights put out by people with literally kilowatts of power available - normally hundreds dedicated to lighting...

THAT is where flashing lights shine (pardon the pun)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Psamathe »

rudge wrote:
ian s wrote:Slightly off the main point of this thread, but mentioned here is the difference in visibility of flashing versus steady lights. My back light flashes quite fast, and it has been observed to me that it is very noticeable, whereas some flash much more slowly, with a significant off time between flashes. I do wonder if the studies concerning flashing versus steady lights have also studied the different flash frequencies.


As I tried to explain above, not very clearly, I find flashing lights bewildering. I can locate a steady light more quickly and be aware of exactly where on the road the cyclist is, which is what I need to know if I am driving a car. I wondered if others have the same negative response to flashing lights.


I would not say "bewildering" in my own case; but I have noticed I see cyclists far sooner at night when they are showing steady rear lights (talking about unlit roads with quite a bit of traffic). In fact the most noticeable are what I would call a "pulsed light" (i.e. steady but flashing even brighter). Few lights seem to provide this mode but I guess the same could be achieved with two lights close together, one steady the other flashing. But I definitely find steady rear lights more noticeable.

I don't know about front lights as I rarely see them. I've noticed a few during daylight but always seen the cyclist first and then after that noticed they have a front flashing light - so does not really make them any more visible.

(Of course this is all my perception as to what I've seen - which may not necessarily be accurate as the mind can be confused and things mis-interpreted).

Ian
MikeF
Posts: 4336
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by MikeF »

rudge wrote:
ian s wrote:Slightly off the main point of this thread, but mentioned here is the difference in visibility of flashing versus steady lights. My back light flashes quite fast, and it has been observed to me that it is very noticeable, whereas some flash much more slowly, with a significant off time between flashes. I do wonder if the studies concerning flashing versus steady lights have also studied the different flash frequencies.


As I tried to explain above, not very clearly, I find flashing lights bewildering. I can locate a steady light more quickly and be aware of exactly where on the road the cyclist is, which is what I need to know if I am driving a car. I wondered if others have the same negative response to flashing lights.

I am not sure about headlamps, either. The momentary reaction "what on earth is that?" is an unhelpful distraction. Straightforward, bright, steady lights at the conventional level is what I find useful in relating to other cyclists, whether I am cycling or driving at the time, and that is what I try to provide for others to see me.

Now finding a front lamp that both warns others of my presence (easy enough) and illuminates the road (much more difficult) is annother matter, but that really is off the point of this thread.

I would agree with most of that (so would some of my non cycling motorist friends).
"Shimmering" cycle rear lights are certainly better than flashing ones as they give a continuous indication of the position of the cyclist.

Car rear lights are not really very bright at all, but on modern cars they have a large surface area and hence are very visible. Bicycle lights, OTOH, generally are tiny in comparison and so are much less visible, even giving out a good light and powered by "batteries" not near exhaustion. A small bright source does not have the same visibility as a large, but less bright source. This is the main problem, but it depends very much on the surrounds as well.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
User avatar
Vantage
Posts: 3048
Joined: 24 Jan 2012, 1:44pm
Location: somewhere in Bolton
Contact:

Re: A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

Post by Vantage »

+1
We need lights with bigger lenses/reflectors. In the 80's and early 90's I remember lights having the same circumference as a regular mug but all this changed for brighter but much smaller and lighter lights. I'd rather have a bit more presence at the cost of weight.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
Post Reply