BT Openreach cyclists stay back

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Graham
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby Graham » 10 Nov 2017, 9:54am

The evolution of the motor vehicle transport culture is :-

The creation of danger to those outside the vehicle.
AND
The forcing of those outside the vehicle to mitigate or avoid the danger created.

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mjr
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby mjr » 10 Nov 2017, 10:56am

Username wrote:
Flinders wrote:I saw that last week on one. I was driving at the time, and ironically, I noticed it partly because of the poor driving of the van's driver..........
I think it is very offensive.


Why is it offensive? I fail to see why I should, as a cyclist, get pissed off about a sign on the back of a van saying "cyclists stay back". Sounds reasonable enough for me to give work vehicles a wide berth. Any vehicles for that matter. Don't artics have similar signs?

There are at least two major reasons why it's offensive:
1. it directly contradicts and attempts to overrule the road laws and Highway Code which don't prohibit cyclists from overtaking - at best, it's an attempt to con people who don't know the law and code and at worst, it's pre-emptive victim-blaming of anyone killed by them;
2. vehicle operators who care would do things like buy new lorries with direct-vision cabs so that their drivers can see enough to drive them safely - but that's too expensive and few of their competitors will do it until forced, so they put a few of these signs on to excuse the crap state of the law that allows these low-visibility vehicles onto most of our roads.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

thirdcrank
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby thirdcrank » 10 Nov 2017, 11:30am

This thread has been going so long that I can't remember if I've made the point that signs of this type tend to reduce the onus on the driver to take responsibility for their own actions.

Psamathe
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby Psamathe » 10 Nov 2017, 11:48am

thirdcrank wrote:.... signs of this type tend to reduce the onus on the driver to take responsibility for their own actions.

I feel it also reflects badly on the company operating the vehicle (or the one with their logo painted on the side) in that it makes a clear statement that they are not prepared to invest in technology to help the driver see into those blind spots and instead transfer the responsibility for the drivers shortcomings onto the vulnerable road users. Says a lot about the companies using such signs.

And thus all crdit to theCo-op (reason I "re-activated this thread) in that they seem to also be investing in that additional safety/visibility technology
We’ve recently installed new safety features on to 2,500 delivery vehicles including reversing cameras, blind spot cameras and high visibility extended side guards. We also regularly hold sessions with our drivers to increase their awareness of vulnerable road users.


Ian

brynpoeth
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby brynpoeth » 10 Nov 2017, 11:53am

Little. Often. Co-op

I would shop there more often if I could
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott.. Alternative facts welcome

drossall
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby drossall » 10 Nov 2017, 11:11pm

Username wrote:Why is it offensive? I fail to see why I should, as a cyclist, get pissed off about a sign on the back of a van saying "cyclists stay back". Sounds reasonable enough for me to give work vehicles a wide berth. Any vehicles for that matter. Don't artics have similar signs?

The signs were designed for artics, which can have a particular issue with visibility and the need for space around them. They were never intended for smaller vehicles. As others have said, there's no law against bikes filtering. It needs care, obviously, but the signs are fundamentally promoting an approach that is not recognised in law. The proliferation of them onto, sometimes, Minis and the like reflects an assumption that is not the case.

Flinders
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby Flinders » 13 Nov 2017, 12:43pm

Username wrote:
Flinders wrote:I saw that last week on one. I was driving at the time, and ironically, I noticed it partly because of the poor driving of the van's driver..........
I think it is very offensive.


Why is it offensive? I fail to see why I should, as a cyclist, get pissed off about a sign on the back of a van saying "cyclists stay back". Sounds reasonable enough for me to give work vehicles a wide berth. Any vehicles for that matter. Don't artics have similar signs?


Explain to me:
how do I get to and advance start box if I 'stay back'?
how does this sign prevent drivers from overtaking me and left/right hooking me?
how many times are you overtaken/undertaken by a lorry when you are out cycling? what's the difference?

Psamathe
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby Psamathe » 13 Nov 2017, 12:50pm

Flinders wrote:.....
how does this sign prevent drivers from overtaking me and left/right hooking me?
....

Year (or two) ago I was infuriated when a builders yard lorry (Travis Perking) overtook and pulled in too soon missing me by inches and showing their "Cyclists Stay Back" notice inches ahead of my front wheel. Brought home to me how crucial drivers are to safety and how stupid signs are little more than insulting PR. Really emphasised how easy it can be for companies to stick a sign on their lorries and decide "they've done their bit contributing to cycle safety" whilst completely missing the real issues.

Ian

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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Postby Username » 13 Nov 2017, 6:10pm

Flinders wrote:
Username wrote:
Flinders wrote:I saw that last week on one. I was driving at the time, and ironically, I noticed it partly because of the poor driving of the van's driver..........
I think it is very offensive.


Why is it offensive? I fail to see why I should, as a cyclist, get pissed off about a sign on the back of a van saying "cyclists stay back". Sounds reasonable enough for me to give work vehicles a wide berth. Any vehicles for that matter. Don't artics have similar signs?


Explain to me:
how do I get to and advance start box if I 'stay back'?
how does this sign prevent drivers from overtaking me and left/right hooking me?
how many times are you overtaken/undertaken by a lorry when you are out cycling? what's the difference?


1. You don't. As with most situations, use your judgement to decide whether it's safe or practical to get to a start box thing.
2. It doesn't. It's just a sticker with words on it. You're probably thinking of a tank.
3. Absolutely no idea to any of these. Being over or under taken is not typically an issue for me. Undertaking is passing someone on the left. Overtaking is passing someone on the right. Vice versa for right hand drive countries.