Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

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BeeKeeper
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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby BeeKeeper » 24 Aug 2014, 10:24am

I have never heard of Gary Taurus but a bit of Googling throws up many references. Here is one: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/why-we-get-fat/

Tonyf33
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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby Tonyf33 » 24 Aug 2014, 10:40am

Gearoidmuar wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:As for genetic predisposition, it plays a part, but IMO it is a small one that can be overcome with not a huge amount of 'difficulty'..but difficult is not what large swathes of Western society want..they want easy & quick fix so give up far too easily when they don't get instant results or it becomes 'too hard' :x


Your gut instinct is very understandable Tony, but it appears to be incorrect. It's the cart before the horse. What apparently happens is that eating a diet unsuited to them, genetically predisposed people start to put on weight and become lazy. They do not get fat because they're lazy but the other way around. If you cut their carbs drastically, the become energised and lose weight. It's insulin driven.


Hang on a second..you need to start to learn to read and understand what people actually write, not what you think they write because no-where in my post did I say that people get fat because they're lazy?

Re-read what I wrote again, THE VERY FIRST LINE, I said "A major part of the problem for the Western world is the ease in which you can consume vast quantities of Kcals".
Now read what you said..."What apparently happens is that eating a diet unsuited to them, genetically predisposed people start to put on weight"
You basically repeated what I said, yet you say that I've got it the wrong way round?? :?

I explained (a part of) why people have a tendency to sedentary lifestyles, that in itself doesn't equate to 'lazy', they do not mean the same thing as far as I'm concerned.

In the last 40 years people's lives have become progressively far easier with the ability to use fewer calories and still function/survive, that in itself combined with the ease of how we get our food and the relative cost of food compared to average wage (cheaper thann ever) means that people can easily overfuel themselves.
That those with 'supposed' predisposed genetics ignore the fact they are gaining too much weight(or rather should that be increses in fat levels) doesn't in itself say they are 'lazy', there a whole host of reasons why people ignore what is going on with their bodies.

You may have a rudimentary grasp of an atypical persons genetics & how differing calories effect certain types, but understanding why people are in the situation of being 'overweight' or carrying too much fat and they fail to do something about it, would go a long way to helping them (if indeed they want help).
As opposed to trying to undermine other posters comments when you yourself cannot even understand the basics in language..it really isn't helpful and it makes you look like you're trying to do the 'oneupmanship, I know better than you card.. :roll:

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby TonyR » 24 Aug 2014, 11:45am

Gearoidmuar wrote:
TonyR wrote:Do you have any references to this in the scientific literature or is it a pet theory?


Yes. If you read Gary Taubes monumental book, Good Calories Bad Calories, or The Diet Delusion in the Uk, it is referenced completely in the last chapter or two of it. He spent years researching the literature for all of this. The problem with many academics is that they don't read widely. I worked with a chap in London who at the time was a consultant and became a very widely respected Professor and researcher. He told me ... "I read no journals. I hear it all at meetings". This is true for many, and, unfortunately, what it not comfortable for the sponsors of the meetings to hear (food companies etc), tends to get suppressed. That is why many researchers are quite ignorant of many areas which they should research.


As I thought, the pet theories of another fad book by a journalist cashing in on dietary fashions, not peer reviewed research publications. Yes he references research but, as analysed in a Washington Post article of the time, very selectively to ignore anything that disagrees with his hypothesis or by misrepresenting it.

And yes, as a leading researcher you typically hear all the latest developments at the conferences, not in the journals. Why? Because there's typically an 18-24 month delay between the results and them being published so all the latest developments are transferred in conference talks or one to one and group discussions at conferences and other venues. Even something as important as the Higgs Boson was announced by CERN at an event three months before it was published - and the journal involved moved heaven and earth to get it into the next issue, not one in 18 months because of its importance to science.

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby BeeKeeper » 24 Aug 2014, 11:50am

This is all getting a bit heated. The Gary Torus chappie, or whatever he is called, claims it is carbohydrates not calories which make people fat, see my link above for a description of his argument. I don't agree with it but if you do then saying too many calories or too many carbohydrates ("wrong diet") are different arguments. They are not the same thing.

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby beardy » 24 Aug 2014, 12:23pm

The term carbohydrates is too imprecise.

There must be some very awful high carbohydrate diets out there and if you concentrate on them in comparison to a more natural fat laden, sugar free diet then it may be an improvement.

White processed sugar is a carbohydrate as is wholemeal bread or oats.

I think eggs and bacon probably makes a better breakfast than "whiteflour-sugar" flakes but neither compares to porridge (even with fullfat milk).

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby Mick F » 24 Aug 2014, 12:47pm

beardy wrote:I think eggs and bacon probably makes a better breakfast than "whiteflour-sugar" flakes but neither compares to porridge (even with fullfat milk).
Now you're talking.
Porridge? I don't like it, and even if I eat it, I'm hungry too soon. Too much stodge.

Give me a good protein breakfast. Two or three rashers of bacon and a fried egg or two - plus bread and butter suits me just fine and sets me up for day.
Porridge? I wouldn't give it house room.
Mick F. Cornwall

TonyR
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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby TonyR » 24 Aug 2014, 1:08pm

beardy wrote:The term carbohydrates is too imprecise.

There must be some very awful high carbohydrate diets out there and if you concentrate on them in comparison to a more natural fat laden, sugar free diet then it may be an improvement.


Most subsistence and near subsistence diets are all carbohydrate. Protein is a luxury that is neither affordable nor very available. That you don't get fat on them tends to indicate its calories not carbohydrates that are the problem.

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby Gearoidmuar » 24 Aug 2014, 1:38pm

TonyR wrote:
beardy wrote:The term carbohydrates is too imprecise.

There must be some very awful high carbohydrate diets out there and if you concentrate on them in comparison to a more natural fat laden, sugar free diet then it may be an improvement.


Most subsistence and near subsistence diets are all carbohydrate. Protein is a luxury that is neither affordable nor very available. That you don't get fat on them tends to indicate its calories not carbohydrates that are the problem.


It's true about subsistence diet but poor people worldwide who live on high carb diet are much fatter than their fellow citizens who don't, by and large. Look at the "poor white trash" in America for instance. Look at the British working class who've got hugely obese in the last 10 years.. They are drinking Coke and eating chips.

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Mick F
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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby Mick F » 24 Aug 2014, 1:50pm

Gearoidmuar wrote: ............ drinking Coke and eating chips.
......... and from an early age too. Plus crisps.

Crisps, and packeted crisp-like things, are marketed as "snacks" these days. You see 3yo children in push-chairs with a bag of rubbish to eat whilst they are pushed round the town.

A snack, to me, is a sandwich or a prepared plate of food and a cup of tea or coffee, not a packet of scampi fries and a sweet fizzy drink. No wonder the people are fat, their children are fat, and the dentists are doing a roaring trade.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby BeeKeeper » 24 Aug 2014, 2:29pm

Gearoidmuar wrote:
TonyR wrote:
beardy wrote:The term carbohydrates is too imprecise.

There must be some very awful high carbohydrate diets out there and if you concentrate on them in comparison to a more natural fat laden, sugar free diet then it may be an improvement.


Most subsistence and near subsistence diets are all carbohydrate. Protein is a luxury that is neither affordable nor very available. That you don't get fat on them tends to indicate its calories not carbohydrates that are the problem.


It's true about subsistence diet but poor people worldwide who live on high carb diet are much fatter than their fellow citizens who don't, by and large. Look at the "poor white trash" in America for instance. Look at the British working class who've got hugely obese in the last 10 years.. They are drinking Coke and eating chips.

And that's the problem with Garray Tube's theory. High carb diets are also in most cases high in calories. How do you work out which is which?

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby al_yrpal » 24 Aug 2014, 3:34pm

Dead easy to work out calories, carbs, and everything. Use this http://www.myfitnesspal.com it has a database of 3 million items, and you can scan the barcode on practically anything and it gives you a complete breakdown and calorie value. It seems to default to a diet recommendation of 50% of calories from carbs, 20% from protein and 30% from fat.
If you accurately put into it what you eat each day and what exercise you did it subtracts the calories from the exercise from the calories from the food giving you a nett value, you daily total. Worked perfectly for me, and over 8 months it has been pretty accurate in that the weight loss exactly matched what it predicted. Thats why I believe calorie counting is an accurate and effective way to loose and maintain weight.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby Gearoidmuar » 24 Aug 2014, 4:32pm

al_yrpal wrote:Dead easy to work out calories, carbs, and everything. Use this http://www.myfitnesspal.com it has a database of 3 million items, and you can scan the barcode on practically anything and it gives you a complete breakdown and calorie value. It seems to default to a diet recommendation of 50% of calories from carbs, 20% from protein and 30% from fat.
If you accurately put into it what you eat each day and what exercise you did it subtracts the calories from the exercise from the calories from the food giving you a nett value, you daily total. Worked perfectly for me, and over 8 months it has been pretty accurate in that the weight loss exactly matched what it predicted. Thats why I believe calorie counting is an accurate and effective way to loose and maintain weight.

Al


How hungry are you?

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby al_yrpal » 24 Aug 2014, 4:55pm

Garry, I get hungry at mealtimes which is normal I think. My wife and I enjoy our present diet which includes a bit of everything.

Yesterdays breakfast, Muesli, milk, frozen berries and banana, lunch a single cheese roll with watercress and a tomato. Evening meal, homemade low calorie soup, steak chips peas, fried onions and mushrooms, strawberries merangue and ice cream. Glass of red wine.

Todays breakfast, fried egg, 1 slice of bacon, tinned tomatoes, banana, orange juice, lunch, ham salad with watercress, onion, tomato, cucumber, radish, small beetroot cold baked beans, low calorie dressing, evening meal, low calorie homemade soup poached salmon fillets, new potatoes, carrots, runner beans, melon stawberries and ice cream, glass of white wine.
Throughout the day, coffee in the morning, tea afternoon and evening and a 35ml glass of laphroig with ice.

We did a 2 hour walk around the Reading Rock Festival site yesterday soaking up the atmosphere and I did a 12 mile ride this morning.

Todays calories 1475, exercise, 600. Nett calories 875.
I dont think anyone would be hungry on what we eat, but we do carefully control the quantity of everything. The steaks are lean sirlions 6 oz and 100 g low fat chips. We dont snack, but if we do fancy something there is massive fruit bowl filled with apples and pears from our trees.

We are still both steadily loosing weight despite several holidays, many restaurant meals and dinners out where we just eat whatever we fancy.

You dont need to give up anything at all to loose weight, just eat less and cut out the cr* * and you dont need to feel hungry all the time. Feeling hungry is a normal feeling, its called having an appetite! I am looking forward to that dinner..

All the best.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

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Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby sore thumb » 24 Aug 2014, 7:39pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:Gosh! Who would have guessed it, exercise and diet help you lose weight, well there. Is that why all the 'car drivers' I 'interact!' With are fat?



To be honest a lot of people I see these days are overweight.

I also find that others put you down for being fit/slim. It probably due to them not liking their own body image. The only way they can make them feel better about themselves is to put others down.

I find this when work colleagues that are a bit overweight try to do some dieting, the fatter colleagues try to put them off dieting.


I do feel now that I am in the minority in society with the 'odd' body shape. ie. look fit and healthy.

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Re: Shock finding: cycling causes weight loss

Postby Gearoidmuar » 24 Aug 2014, 8:04pm

al_yrpal wrote:Garry, I get hungry at mealtimes which is normal I think. My wife and I enjoy our present diet which includes a bit of everything.

Yesterdays breakfast, Muesli, milk, frozen berries and banana, lunch a single cheese roll with watercress and a tomato. Evening meal, homemade low calorie soup, steak chips peas, fried onions and mushrooms, strawberries merangue and ice cream. Glass of red wine.

Todays breakfast, fried egg, 1 slice of bacon, tinned tomatoes, banana, orange juice, lunch, ham salad with watercress, onion, tomato, cucumber, radish, small beetroot cold baked beans, low calorie dressing, evening meal, low calorie homemade soup poached salmon fillets, new potatoes, carrots, runner beans, melon stawberries and ice cream, glass of white wine.
Throughout the day, coffee in the morning, tea afternoon and evening and a 35ml glass of laphroig with ice.

We did a 2 hour walk around the Reading Rock Festival site yesterday soaking up the atmosphere and I did a 12 mile ride this morning.

Todays calories 1475, exercise, 600. Nett calories 875.
I dont think anyone would be hungry on what we eat, but we do carefully control the quantity of everything. The steaks are lean sirlions 6 oz and 100 g low fat chips. We dont snack, but if we do fancy something there is massive fruit bowl filled with apples and pears from our trees.

We are still both steadily loosing weight despite several holidays, many restaurant meals and dinners out where we just eat whatever we fancy.

You dont need to give up anything at all to loose weight, just eat less and cut out the cr* * and you dont need to feel hungry all the time. Feeling hungry is a normal feeling, its called having an appetite! I am looking forward to that dinner..

All the best.

Al


I appear to eat a huge amount, but I think it amounts to about 2000 cals.
For breakfast I have a two egg omelet with a good lump of cheese and three slices of Lidl Peppered Salami, 50g of ground linseed with boiling water to make a porridge, 150cc of Lidl Milbona Greek yoghourt with 5g carbs worth of blueberries and usually 5g carbs worth of microwaved veg like half a cauli with butter etc.

For lunch I might have a sliced tomato with say a packet of smoked mackerel followed by more Yog plus berries.

For dinner, tonight had a huge amount of lamb pasanda with mushrooms with butter and all kinds of stuff, and more yog. I love yog.

Later on I'll have some cheese and whiskey.

Yesterday I did the cycle of a sprint triatholon. 12 miles eyeballs out. Knackered after that. We won (my daughter is a top athlete just getting into form having had a baby).

At the moment, I'm as unhungry (I like new words) as a python who's just eaten a particularly large elephant!

I don't count the calories at all and eat as much as I want. I count carb grammes that's all.