Four 4x4's/SUV'S on a forty mile ride

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
reohn2
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby reohn2 » 27 Aug 2014, 2:56pm

The Mechanic wrote:Living in the north east of Scotland we have a lot of 4x4 vehicles. I have not noticed any particular discourtesy shown by them than other vehicles.

That's good :)
Unlike other posters, I do not claim this as a fact,

But if I'm overtaken inconsiderately/closely,disproportionately by 4x4/SUV's to their numbers then it is fact,for me at least and some others on this thread.
only my observation but it seems to me that, generally speaking, drivers are a bit more considerate up here than they reportedly are in Englandshire.

Which is consistent with you first sentence.
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reohn2
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby reohn2 » 27 Aug 2014, 3:06pm

al_yrpal wrote:My comment about the reliability of my 4x4 vs my sons SUV was just about the irony of Which findings. I subscribe to Which but I do make my own mind up on purchases taking into account their views. Nothing to do with the discussion.

OK I take your point,what about thread in the teashop on the subject? :wink:

I think the reason why so many buy SUVs is the interior space and the driving position which is often nicer than a conventional car. In my case the 4x4 bit which is actually 2WD most of the time is for the winter because around here the roads are often skating rinks and when the snow comes you can forget driving a conventional vehicle because the roads are never cleared by the council. My MIL gets trapped indoors in those conditions. Others live rurally and would be cut off with no access to a 4WD.

Al

If that's true then I agree,but where is it you live?
The council don't grit around here for the two weeks of the year on a 5 to 7 year cycle we get extremes of temperature,and the odd time we get snowed on in any great amount,which has been three years in the last ten!

Undoubtably there are many stylistas too.

Undoubtably
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Location: English Riviera

Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 27 Aug 2014, 3:07pm

Hi,
I think that Bull bars are now banned :?: And rightly so as said they just crush bones on low impact.
My poke at 4X4's saying I owned one too (tounge in cheek :) ) / or my apparent (I dont really notice 4X4's being any worse) support for them because I own one does not have any bearing on my opinion of the vehicles that are most at fault of being discourteous, as honest as I can be, in the same way as I respect that your personal experience or opinion based on facts / statistics that 4x4's are proportionally worse drivers for safety of cyclist or just that they are worse proportionally, may be based on where you live.
As I DO HAVE problems with horses where I live, but I do live in a place where most want to retire so the problems might just be exasperated by the fact that those who can afford to live here also can afford to have a horse too, along with 4x4's and a trailer to put it in.
There's a gulf between me an the well off where I live as far as we are without industry here, but its a warm less populated next to the sea so attracts the rich retired lot who extend their wealth to their familys, wealth without sweat you would think would highlight a type of vehicle that gives me more grief.

But I cant say that a specific type of vehicle comes to mind or stands out, my 4x4 looks like a car / people carrier and I do own a camper, I have been tooted at going up hill by a camper whilst on bike because I was too slow and they thought I should just not be there, I admit that when you are trying to overtake up hill in a camper its lack of car performance does frustrate me and I itch to overtake a cyclist but am patient enough to wait till its safe, so I understand the camper drivers frustration but should not take it out on the vunerable cyclist.

As a 4x4 owner and a camper too but as a motorcyclist for many years I do drive different than the expected standrd today as I always stop (or am ready to) at junctions, and I do use hand brake at junction even when stopping momentarily.
Driving a motorcycle all year round educates you quickly what not to do, but car drivers are different, they think not of moderating speed in the wet, a motorcycle would need to or fall of.
I have had a 4x4 point his vehicle at me twice in rage but this does not make me think that all the other near misses were more likely 4x4's.
Or that campers in general are worse too.

I do agree that it is my gut instinct that 4x4 and suv drivers are probably maybe worse proportionately, but how do we prove that, all the money on cycling safety seems to be directed at segregating cyclist and training cyclist which will not affect cylist safety on roads at all.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

reohn2
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby reohn2 » 27 Aug 2014, 3:08pm

kwackers wrote:........I can't say I like 4x4's, I don't believe your average punter should be allowed to drive around in a 3 ton vehicle just for the sake of image.
I find them particularly annoying in the winter when there's ice on the floor and I spot them in peoples gardens after their drivers discovered that just because 4 wheel drive gets them off the mark a bit quicker it doesn't do much for actually stopping on ice, nor do the large wheels and mass show much respect for other peoples property (and occasionally other people).

There's no doubt some folk need them but compared to the number sold it's a tiny number. I'd be inclined to reduce the maximum weight for PLG effectively removing heavy vehicles out of private use whilst allowing those that actually need them to add the extra license requirements.

Spot on IMO.
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Postboxer
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby Postboxer » 28 Aug 2014, 8:49am

Separate 4x4 test, including driving one off-road, unless you have a tractor licence. This should sort the farmers from the Chelsea Tractor driving wannabes.
There should also be a towing/caravan test, my mum has a small caravan site and the standard of some of their driving, even when not towing a big white box behind them leaves a lot to be desired.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby al_yrpal » 28 Aug 2014, 11:50am

Well, if you are going to be consistent you will have to make everyone who wants to occasionally drive a Transit take another test, and us oldies who can drive minibuses carrying up to 14 people, and motorhome drivers and so called people carriers. Why not?

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

kwackers
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby kwackers » 28 Aug 2014, 11:59am

al_yrpal wrote:Well, if you are going to be consistent you will have to make everyone who wants to occasionally drive a Transit take another test, and us oldies who can drive minibuses carrying up to 14 people, and motorhome drivers and so called people carriers. Why not?

Al

Not a bad idea. How it works that you can pass your test in a Fiesta and then drive vehicles that are much larger and heavier, carry more people etc is nonsense.

Bit of extra training doesn't hurt anyone.
(Don't worry, we'll be protected by 'grandfather' rights :wink: )

Postboxer
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby Postboxer » 28 Aug 2014, 6:30pm

Quite agree, particularly for young drivers, would also be a good way to deal with persistent speeders, limit what car they're allowed to drive.

reohn2
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2014, 8:00pm

al_yrpal wrote:Well, if you are going to be consistent you will have to make everyone who wants to occasionally drive a Transit take another test, and us oldies who can drive minibuses carrying up to 14 people, and motorhome drivers and so called people carriers. Why not?

Al

Why not indeed what's there to be afraid of! :D
TBH at least a number of lessons followed by an assessment by a driving examiner for bigger vehicles and without doubt a type of PSV license for vehicles capable of carrying more than six passengers.
Extra lessons/assessment should compulsory for towing trailers heavier than 1 tonne gross,or wider than a standard car ie caravans and camper vans.

Whilst we're at it drivers over seventy years old should be assessed for physical and mental ability on 5 year basis,with over 80's every two years,over 90's annually.
Drivers who've been banned for 6 months or more or who continually collect points over a 10 year period should have to resit their driving test.Drink/drugged drivers a retest to a higher standard and proof of rehab course completed.
Strict?
Harsh?
You bet :)
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reohn2
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2014, 8:03pm

Postboxer wrote:Separate 4x4 test, including driving one off-road, unless you have a tractor licence. This should sort the farmers from the Chelsea Tractor driving wannabes.
There should also be a towing/caravan test, my mum has a small caravan site and the standard of some of their driving, even when not towing a big white box behind them leaves a lot to be desired.


Watching other caravaner's trying to get on a pitch can be quite entertaining at times :D
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Postboxer
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Re: Four 4x4's/SUV'S on a forty mile ride

Postby Postboxer » 28 Aug 2014, 8:18pm

Yes it can, some just can not reverse.

Whilst we're at it, the standard test should be harder too. People will have to accept that not everyone can be a competent driver and no matter how many attempts they make, they will not pass the test.

Then we'll need better public transport and better cycling facilities.

andrewk
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Re: Four 4x4's/SUV'S on a forty mile ride

Postby andrewk » 28 Aug 2014, 9:27pm

From my own experiences 4x4 drivers are OK, certainly better than drivers of MPVs (minvans) who often border on the incompetent.

AlaninWales
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Re: Four 4x4's on a forty mile ride

Postby AlaninWales » 29 Aug 2014, 10:08am

reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Well, if you are going to be consistent you will have to make everyone who wants to occasionally drive a Transit take another test, and us oldies who can drive minibuses carrying up to 14 people, and motorhome drivers and so called people carriers. Why not?

Al

Why not indeed what's there to be afraid of! :D
TBH at least a number of lessons followed by an assessment by a driving examiner for bigger vehicles and without doubt a type of PSV license for vehicles capable of carrying more than six passengers.
Extra lessons/assessment should compulsory for towing trailers heavier than 1 tonne gross,or wider than a standard car ie caravans and camper vans.

Whilst we're at it drivers over seventy years old should be assessed for physical and mental ability on 5 year basis,with over 80's every two years,over 90's annually.
Drivers who've been banned for 6 months or more or who continually collect points over a 10 year period should have to resit their driving test.Drink/drugged drivers a retest to a higher standard and proof of rehab course completed.
Strict?
Harsh?
You bet :)

Likely?
DVSA DT 1 wrote:1.48 EXTENDED TEST (ASSESSMENT OF FAULTS)
The normal methods of assessment should be applied. However, examiners are
reminded that most candidates are likely to have had considerable driving experience,
prior to their mandatory disqualification. Because of this, their method and standard of
driving will probably be quite different to that of the majority of learner drivers. For
example, their ability to take advantage of gaps in the traffic to emerge safely from
junctions is likely to be to a much higher standard than that of the less experienced
driver. They should not be penalised for this


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... cedure.pdf

So who are these candidates who's judgement on the safety of (for example) pulling out can be trusted?
DVSA DT 1 wrote:1.47 THE EXTENDED TEST
Drivers convicted of certain dangerous driving offences are required to take a
mandatory extended driving test following a period of disqualification; these will be
identified on the DL34.

reohn2
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Re: Four 4x4's/SUV'S on a forty mile ride

Postby reohn2 » 29 Aug 2014, 10:15am

You couldn't make it up :?
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DaveGos
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Re: Four 4x4's/SUV'S on a forty mile ride

Postby DaveGos » 29 Aug 2014, 2:54pm

80 percent of incidents and aggression I experience towards me as a cyclist are 4 by 4

In practical terms my personal experience and understanding is that if you truly need better grip etc get good tyres , chains in snow and or lower your tyre pressure , far more effective than a 4 by 4

I drove the whole West Falklands on muddy dirt roads using a 4 by 4 that you have to get out and manually engage , never got near to engaging it and they are not good roads, also saw plenty of 4 by 4 s get stuck in the bogs there