Cycling Eutopia ?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
djqster
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby djqster » 17 Oct 2014, 2:16pm

Bicycler wrote:As for railways, that's a cracking idea. Seeing as so many have had the number of tracks reduced I think there would be space on quite a few for an adjacent cycle path.


Hmm.
You know how you're not supposed to use a train toilet in the station? Well when you use it away from the station and the train is moving quickly, whatever you flush is blasted into an aerosol by the slipstream where it sits in a nice breathable cloud.

It's a problem for lineside workers and potential lineside cyclists until all trains are fitted with waste tanks.

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mjr
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby mjr » 17 Oct 2014, 3:42pm

djqster wrote:You know how you're not supposed to use a train toilet in the station? Well when you use it away from the station and the train is moving quickly, whatever you flush is blasted into an aerosol by the slipstream where it sits in a nice breathable cloud.

It's a problem for lineside workers and potential lineside cyclists until all trains are fitted with waste tanks.

How many still aren't? The HST slam-doors. What else? Most of what's seen locally are Happy Trains and the various *stars and I think they've all got waste tanks, like most trains built since 1989.

I think the UK government was given a deadline of 2017 to stop this and that's why the Intercity Express Programme trains are scheduled to start service then, so this doesn't seem a big barrier to railside cycleways any more.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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CliveyT
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby CliveyT » 17 Oct 2014, 4:19pm

NUKe wrote:
Mick F wrote:Yep.
Ridden there, and Amsterdam, and Antwerp.

Cycling Utopia is a place where there is scenery, hills, sweeping countryside, vales and valleys, quite lanes, mountains and hills, smooth roads, cafes and pubs, castles and farms and draughty barns ........

Not a busy European city.

Mick
I think I may have confused you with my title it was mine not the articles, Cycling Eutopia was my interpreration, It all depends on why you cycle. If you had to cycle into a big city everyday for work, then copenhagen is probably one of the best. But if you ride for Liesure then your right with your version of Eutopia. I am very lucky that most of commute is on quite country lanes.


A utopia for cycling rather than for cyclists. Cambridge certainly isn't perfect, but is full of people who aren't cyclists, they're just people who happen to use bikes to get around (in the same way I wouldn't call myself a pedestrian just because I walk to the shops. It's also incredibly boring to cycle around

andrewk
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby andrewk » 18 Oct 2014, 2:01pm

50% of Copenhagen residents commute by bike....BUT that will never happen in England. Copenhagen is small and flat (though e-bikes can solve the hill issue) v. London or our other major cities. Lots cycle in Cambridge but that's also small and flat and has a young population.
However aside from the city size and flatness factors IMO the two main reasons why we will never reach such a high proportion of cycle commuting are:
-Our commutes are generally longer...most people are unwilling to consider cycling for anything over 3 miles each way.
-Our population is fat (we are the most obese nation in Europe) and lazy...its not primarily a dearth of cycling infrastructure thats the cause why so few cycle commute; its because they don't want to. Most don't even want to walk 1 mile each way, they take the bus or drive. Its difficult to change peoples' mentality...the govt. has been banging on for years about exercise and a healthy diet yet our population keeps getting even fatter.
I'm all for drastically improving cycling infrastructure and believe that it will encourage more people to cycle commute, but how many more? I'd be surprised if we even reach 20%, more likely 10%. Still worth doing...making 10% healthier, cutting congestion and pollution would be a big win however I don't believe we will ever become a true mass cycling nation.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 18 Oct 2014, 4:49pm

Yes you could have 50% commuting by bike - just because at the moment people don't consider cycling more than a few metres doesn't mean they never will.

And there are people who have silly long commutes (I used to be one of them) but that's not essential to life in the UK...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Bicycler
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby Bicycler » 19 Oct 2014, 3:38pm

mjr wrote:
djqster wrote:You know how you're not supposed to use a train toilet in the station? Well when you use it away from the station and the train is moving quickly, whatever you flush is blasted into an aerosol by the slipstream where it sits in a nice breathable cloud.

It's a problem for lineside workers and potential lineside cyclists until all trains are fitted with waste tanks.

How many still aren't? The HST slam-doors. What else? Most of what's seen locally are Happy Trains and the various *stars and I think they've all got waste tanks, like most trains built since 1989.

I think the UK government was given a deadline of 2017 to stop this and that's why the Intercity Express Programme trains are scheduled to start service then, so this doesn't seem a big barrier to railside cycleways any more.

I wasn't aware of any deadline. Certainly the HSTs won't all suddenly be removed from service in 2017. As for other trains well that is an awful lot of those trains built during the 1980s including all the Pacers and some of the Sprinters which comprise the majority of local stopping services in much of the country. Looking at my local operator (Northern) that is most of their fleet! There's certainly a lot of fuss about the disability regulations which will require all trains to be fully accessible by 2020 and which many had thought would lead to the withdrawal of many older trains. In many cases rising demand seems to make that unlikely and we seem likely to be using many of these already antiquated units (suitably altered for disabled access) into the next couple of decades.

I don't think the toilet situation is a big issue in all honesty. Cycle paths would have to be physically separated from trains anyway. Whilst undoubtedly unpleasant when used in stations or for workers who must work the lines. It is not something that has created any significant numbers of complaints where express trains pass through intermediate stations at speed or where footpaths run adjacent to railway lines. I think it is more of a repulsive notion than a genuine health risk. If I was that bothered about traces of pollutants in what I might breathe I would be far more worried about riding on the roads!

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mjr
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby mjr » 19 Oct 2014, 7:08pm

Old coverage of the train deadline: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24925280
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bicycler
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby Bicycler » 19 Oct 2014, 7:24pm

I must be missing a section about deadlines :? What it does say is:
She said InterCity 125 trains would be replaced from 2017 by new models which would solve the problem.

I think you are misinterpreting that as meaning that they are being replaced in 2017 because of this issue. The causality is the other way; she's saying that this is not long term issue (on HSTs) because the trains are going anyway. It's actually a bit of a misleading claim because there will still be HSTs running other lines for years to come. In fact there are several statements in that article that make it sound like a concerted effort is being made to remove these toilets. In truth it's very low on their list of priorities and only likely to happen as older stock gets phased out which is happening at a rather slow rate. I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that we will still be running some of these trains in 15 years time

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mjr
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby mjr » 19 Oct 2014, 7:40pm

Bicycler wrote:I think you are misinterpreting that as meaning that they are being replaced in 2017 because of this issue.

Actually, I think I posted the wrong link there. I'm sure I read it somewhere but it doesn't seem to be in this browser's history. What I remember is that an investigation was started a while ago, the Environment Agency or some other pet bit of gov.uk claimed that it was all OK and train companies are allowed to do that, but some other bit of government decided it thought that hadn't been the case since some time in the 1990s and declared it would take the DfT or its franchising office to court to test the theory, then the 2017 replacement date was committed to and the court bit is on hold.

Anyway, once IEP arrives, the HSTs will probably go for refurbishment before being cascaded and maybe sewage tanks will be fitted then... but as you wrote, it's not like cycleways go very close to the rails anyway.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bicycler
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Re: Cycling Eutopia ?

Postby Bicycler » 19 Oct 2014, 8:02pm

Ah, okay. If you come across it again then post the link. I don't see how it can be a critical issue for HSTs but not for all the other diesel units doing exactly the same thing. Then again I guess stopping services in provincial Britain are suitably far from the eyes and noses of government departments for them not to care a jot so I won't doubt you.