Female Cyclist Death In North London

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AndyBSG
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Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby AndyBSG » 20 Jan 2015, 10:45am

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-killed-in-crash-in-north-london-9989385.html

I think that takes the total up to 14 so far for January.

Yet again it's at a junction and yet again it involves a HGV and it seems that, yet again, it was also a tipper truck. No details or witness reports have been made public yet but I assume we're looking at yet another left hook resulting in a cyclist going under the lorry.

Police are appealing for witnesses

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hondated
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby hondated » 20 Jan 2015, 3:07pm

Look this is getting ridiculous something needs to be done promptly to make sure these needless deaths stop happening.
One of the ways to bring this about is to pass legislation that before anyone can cycle on our roads they must pass their cycle proficiency test. I say that because the first thing I learnt was to not cycle up the inside of motorised vehicles. I should add here that by saying this I am in no way assuming that this is what this young lady did and I wish to pass my condolences on to her family and friends.
I feel qualified to express this comment as I am a driver, cyclist, motorcyclist and former class 1 HGV driver.And just on that last category I was driving HGV vehicles when you did not require specific certification to operate hi Hans hoists and cranes etc but that all changed so why can't we given the growth in traffic on our roads insist on a level of competency to cycle on our busy roads.Just to give a level of balance to my opinion at the time I was driving HGV vehicles we never had to have a lower set of wing mirrors as they do now and yet there were far fewer incidents of cyclists being killed by lorries turning left.
This message has been written in a fit of pique because I am so angry that yet another cyclist has in my opinion died needlessly.

AndyBSG
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby AndyBSG » 20 Jan 2015, 3:43pm

hondated wrote:I say that because the first thing I learnt was to not cycle up the inside of motorised vehicles


Yet 99% of the current cycling infrastructure encourages us to do just that by placing cycle lanes on the left of the road and the highway code itself makes provision for bicycles to filter past traffic.

Personally, I don't know the answer. I've filtered on both the left and right of traffic with both of them having issues

Filtering on the left leaves you vulnerable to the dreaded left hook because of the simple fact very few drivers check to their left when turning. Filtering on the right leaves you exposed to being undertaken if the traffic moves and getting plenty of abusive shouts informing you to 'use the cycle lane' or 'get on the right side of the road'

My personal approach to filtering at junctions is simple. I will filter on the approach to a junction but only to the third car queing from the junction. That means I have plenty of time on the signal change to get across the junction without being caught coming up the left hand side of a car just as the lights change.

Essentially, I make sure that I am always in front or behind a vehicle when the traffic moves and not alongside them which is where the issues come.

The big failing though is that on several occasions I have been stationary sat behind a vehicle only for another one to come up alongside me and this is where taking primary at junctions is SO important. I never want a vehicle alongside me at a junction.

Of course, taking primary then provokes the driver stuck behind you to angrily beep their horn(especially at busy junctions with short light sequences where drivers frequently jump red lights or accelerate through ambers), shout abuse or attempt a dangerous maneuver, to claw back the 5 second delay you're causing him, safe in the knowledge that even if something fatal happens he can use the SMIDSY excuse to avoid all responsibility or legal punishment.

There is no solution any changes to law or highway code can achieve in my opinion because of the simple fact that there are no police around to enforce them and catch people breaking them so it becomes a 'your word against theirs' case which is impossible to convict on.

When I first started driving many moons ago police were on the roads pulling people over for unsafe driving, red light jumping, cutting up, not indicating, etc so you drove well because you never knew when one would be around.

Nowadays drivers only have to worry about speed/bus lane/red light camera's so all the other dangerous habits are now common place as they can't be enforced by cameras and there's no police on the road.

Another problem, and i'm not trying to be right wing here, is the amount of people on the roads nowadays who have never passed a UK driving test and got their licences in countries with almost non existent road laws and driving tests.

IMO, anyone without a UK licence driving in this country should be given a time limited 'visa' to allow them to drive. This will allow holidaymakers to drive but once the visa expires(i.e you are not a holiday maker) you should then be required to pass some form of UK test to esnure you know how to drive in the UK

... bit of a rant there!

kwackers
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby kwackers » 20 Jan 2015, 3:47pm

hondated wrote:I should add here that by saying this I am in no way assuming that this is what this young lady did

I'd say your entire rant is based around cyclists being at fault and the only reason your disclaimer exists is because it'd be bad form to blame this particular cyclist at this time. :roll:

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby [XAP]Bob » 20 Jan 2015, 3:48pm

No - we need to actually penalise drivers who kill, and more importantly those who fail to overtake safely.

Many of these incidents are people who were cycling along happily, not filtering, and then get left hooked anyway.

Average speeds in London are so slow that a cycle is generally the fastest thing on the road anyway.

Cycle training should be brought back in at a schools level, with opportunities for adults to attend courses as well, but the onus shouldn't be on the person being shot - it should be on the person doing the shooting.
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Vantage
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby Vantage » 20 Jan 2015, 3:51pm

It saddens me to say this, but I personally can't see anything changing until things get much, much worse. :(
Bill


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Flinders
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby Flinders » 20 Jan 2015, 4:03pm

kwackers wrote:
hondated wrote:I should add here that by saying this I am in no way assuming that this is what this young lady did

I'd say your entire rant is based around cyclists being at fault and the only reason your disclaimer exists is because it'd be bad form to blame this particular cyclist at this time. :roll:


Exactly.
If we're talking about what generally happens, it might be a better idea to tell truck drivers not to overtake cyclists near junctions.
As a driver, even though I only drive a car, I don't overtake cyclists close to junctions. As a cyclist I would not undertake a truck near a junction. Trucks have overtaken me near junctions when I've been cycling.

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hondated
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby hondated » 20 Jan 2015, 5:18pm

[ quoting messed up and removed : Graham ]

Rant or not Andy you make some good points. I hadn't thought about the cycle lane point and I wonder whether drivers should be obligated to treat them as a solid white line like they do for one in the middle of the road you don't cross it. I also hadn't realised about your passing our test point.
Last edited by Graham on 21 Jan 2015, 5:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Quoting

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hondated
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby hondated » 20 Jan 2015, 5:27pm

[ Quoting messed up : content deleted : Graham ]
Not a happy bunny Graham with regards to you deleting my message because the quotation went wrong given the thought that went into my words. You could have at least had the courtesy to send me a PM informing me of your intentions.
Last edited by hondated on 21 Jan 2015, 2:48pm, edited 1 time in total.

eileithyia
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby eileithyia » 20 Jan 2015, 5:32pm

So so so tragic yet again. But given that we do not know the full facts perhaps too soon apportion blame. Surprising part is the fact the driver was not arrested, as it is usual in a fatality to arrest the driver, initially.
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hondated
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby hondated » 20 Jan 2015, 5:35pm

[ Quoting messed up : content deleted : Graham ]
See above
Last edited by hondated on 21 Jan 2015, 2:49pm, edited 1 time in total.

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661-Pete
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Jan 2015, 5:43pm

eileithyia wrote:So so so tragic yet again. But given that we do not know the full facts perhaps too soon apportion blame. Surprising part is the fact the driver was not arrested, as it is usual in a fatality to arrest the driver, initially.

I don't know whether it is 'usual'. Possible if the police were satisfied that there was no risk of the driver absconding, and his/her name/address details checked out, and there was no accusation at the time of an arrestable offence, they wouldn't have detained him/her.

What's more important is the outcome of the inquest and any Court proceedings.
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MartinC
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby MartinC » 20 Jan 2015, 5:44pm

hondated wrote:....................This message has been written in a fit of pique because..........................


.................I'm assuming that the cyclist undertook the lorry not that the lorry overtook the cyclist.

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661-Pete
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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Jan 2015, 6:08pm

There is no justification for either assumption. Read the Evening Standard article carefully: there was a key witness (the scaffolder, also driving a lorry) but he was either being careful not to disclose too much information to the Press, or genuinely uncertain. Whichever, he does not settle the matter. Nor should we.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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Re: Female Cyclist Death In North London

Postby Psamathe » 20 Jan 2015, 6:24pm

What is so disappointing is that technology to avoid many of these tragedies is cheap and commonplace. We have the technology i.e. we don't need to wait for some magic futuristic invention; it is cheap to fit and easy to use. So why don't we ? Even if just for UK registered lorries ?

Answer: our politicians are too busy trying to score points off each other e.g at that national embarrassment call Prime Ministers Question Time that they can't pull their fingers out to create some new legislation requiring such devices to be fitted to lorries, etc.

So apart from the specifics of each incident, I place a lot of blame of the politicians who really need to pull their fingers out. And depressingly I am 100% sure they will continue playing their silly PM Question Time games, etc.

Ian