Cycling into the sun

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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Vantage
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby Vantage » 22 Feb 2015, 9:50am

Vorpal wrote:There are many hazards cycling. Low sun is only one of them, and frankly, I think it is far from the worst. There are a couple of well-publicised cases in which a driver *claimed* that he or she was blinded by a low sun, but we know that that alone won't make someone drive into a cyclist.

There are longer periods of low sun in the winter in Norway, due to it being further north, so it is impossible for me to avoid some times of the year, unless it is by just taking the car.

When I get glare off a wet road and / or low sun, I don't generally do anything special, though if I am nearing the crest of hill, or something that is likely to make the hazard worse, suddenly, I will check behind me for cars, and I may adjust my road position, according to the situation. That probably means taking the lane I figure if someone's ability to see is limited, they'll still do their best to look immedaitely in front of the car, and may be a little less likely to see a cyclist in secondary than primary position.


^This sums up my own feelings of so-called cycling risks.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.

reohn2
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby reohn2 » 22 Feb 2015, 10:04am

Guy951 wrote:
Flinders wrote:
In a cycle shop £70+. In a safety clothing shop . . £8.


Are you sure they're the same specification? If so that's pretty outrageous.


They probably are the real thing. A couple of years ago one of my friends worked for Oakley and she got me a pair of Ducati sunglasses for "cost and the price of a beer." I gave her £20. At that time,in the shops, they were £119.95. There really is that much of a mark-up on such things.


I have it on good authority(someone who visited the Chinese factory on business) that Rapha pay $1.25 per item on short sleeve road tops,the same item sells in the UK for £120+
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landsurfer
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby landsurfer » 22 Feb 2015, 10:43pm

Lets be honest, certain mags have been running "best lights" articles, most of these bike light sets cost more than my bike !!!!
A fool and his / her money ...etc.
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danhopgood
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby danhopgood » 23 Feb 2015, 12:36pm

Vorpal wrote:There are many hazards cycling. Low sun is only one of them, and frankly, I think it is far from the worst. There are a couple of well-publicised cases in which a driver *claimed* that he or she was blinded by a low sun, but we know that that alone won't make someone drive into a cyclist.


There's at least one case where a driver was found not guilty of causing a cyclist's death where the cyclist was doing nothing more than riding along minding his own business in "secondary". The driver just drove straight into the back of him and the driver's only defence was that he didn't see the cyclist.

Vorpal wrote:When I get glare off a wet road and / or low sun, I don't generally do anything special, though if I am nearing the crest of hill, or something that is likely to make the hazard worse, suddenly, I will check behind me for cars, and I may adjust my road position, according to the situation. That probably means taking the lane I figure if someone's ability to see is limited, they'll still do their best to look immedaitely in front of the car, and may be a little less likely to see a cyclist in secondary than primary position.


I consider primary to be a very bad position to be in low sun. In that position any driver seeing the cyclist late will have very little time to react - especially if they're going to fast for the conditions - highly likely in my view.

The cyclist is largely in the hands of the motorist in these conditions. The only thing the cyclist can do is minimise the risk - be as visible as possible (and in these conditions hi-viz may make things worse), keep out of the traffic flow as far as possible - and preferably not be there at all.

AlaninWales
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby AlaninWales » 23 Feb 2015, 1:13pm


beardy
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby beardy » 23 Feb 2015, 1:13pm

I consider primary to be a very bad position to be in low sun.


I can think of plenty of times when I prefer it and reasons why.

Sometimes the sun is coming through trees to the side and getting out to the middle gives you a constant silhouette to be seen, where as closer in, even your movement is hidden by the trees' apparent movement relative to sun and driver.

If there is traffic then your primary position causes the vehicles which are passing you to have to move out or slow down, this disturbance attracts attention to your presence on the road.

Also moving from primary to secondary as you hear cars approaching gives some more movement to help you be seen.

I consider movement and silhouette (and some shine if you are lucky) to be my best hopes of being seen in this situation.

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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby Vorpal » 23 Feb 2015, 2:22pm

danhopgood wrote:I consider primary to be a very bad position to be in low sun. In that position any driver seeing the cyclist late will have very little time to react - especially if they're going to fast for the conditions - highly likely in my view.

The cyclist is largely in the hands of the motorist in these conditions. The only thing the cyclist can do is minimise the risk - be as visible as possible (and in these conditions hi-viz may make things worse), keep out of the traffic flow as far as possible - and preferably not be there at all.

Firstly, I deal with the situation as it happens at the time; that doesn't mean always taking primary, though I probably use primary rather more than the average knowledgeable cyclist. I even, sometimes take a position slightly outside primary, as motorcyclists are advised to do, if I feel it will aid me.

Taking primary, and the maneouvers to do so, make me more visible. Keeping to the edge of traffic flow makes me less visible. Looking over my shoulder (and making eye contact with a driver behind, if possible) may also help. Non of these is definitive, nor do I slavishly adhere to these recommendations. But in my experience keeping out of traffic flow as far as possible will only result in being squeezed to the kerb.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

gplhl
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Cycling into the sun

Postby gplhl » 23 Feb 2015, 2:39pm

Audax67 wrote:
Used to do this, only with a baseball cap. Then last August on a 1100k Audax we only got 3 hours' rest out of 72, and keeping my head racked back to see out under the peak gave me Shermer's Neck.

I found that the peak of a cycling cap wasn't enough of a rain-shield

As for riding into the sun... sun? What sun?


Ooh, Shermers sounds nasty, hope you recovered fully. Any extreme long time on a bike may cause problems with hands, neck, shoulders, butt, back etc. Unless your on a recumbent.

A baseball cap peak is completely different to a cycling cap, it's a much larger peak meaning you have to lift your head more. You can pull a cycling cap backwards or forwards on your head, tilt the peak to give more or less protection against sun and or rain. That's why it's a cycling cap, admittedly not everyone's cup of tea but definitely much better than a baseball cap which was designed for, I presume baseball where players are stood upright. :-)

Sun, there's loads here in Africa!

Gary
www.longbikeride.co.uk

Ron
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby Ron » 23 Feb 2015, 3:47pm

danhopgood wrote:I consider primary to be a very bad position to be in low sun. In that position any driver seeing the cyclist late will have very little time to react - especially if they're going to fast for the conditions - highly likely in my view.
The cyclist is largely in the hands of the motorist in these conditions. The only thing the cyclist can do is minimise the risk - be as visible as possible (and in these conditions hi-viz may make things worse), keep out of the traffic flow as far as possible - and preferably not be there at all.

That's what I think!
It's not a problem that exists for long, just a month or so each side of the winter solstice and I feel at my most vulnerable after rounding a corner and finding myself temporarily blinded by the low sun. If I feel blinded any driver coming around the corner behind me will also be blinded and may not see me.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby [XAP]Bob » 24 Feb 2015, 7:05pm

Baseball caps are great on a 'bent ;)
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thirdcrank
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby thirdcrank » 28 Feb 2015, 6:37pm

danhopgood wrote: ... I consider primary to be a very bad position to be in low sun. ....


While looking for something else, I found this in Cyclecraft: (p90 9th impression 2013) under Exceptions to the advice on positioning

... There is, however, one important exception to the rules for holding the primary riding position - when there is a significantly increased risk of being hit from behind. ...

beardy
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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby beardy » 28 Feb 2015, 7:19pm

That sort of advice is like saying "only bet on the winning horse".

I think we all know that, how about them stating when the risk is increased enough to abandon the primary. Often it is more a matter of nerve than judgement.

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Re: Cycling into the sun

Postby Vorpal » 1 Mar 2015, 8:56am

thirdcrank wrote:
danhopgood wrote: ... I consider primary to be a very bad position to be in low sun. ....


While looking for something else, I found this in Cyclecraft: (p90 9th impression 2013) under Exceptions to the advice on positioning

... There is, however, one important exception to the rules for holding the primary riding position - when there is a significantly increased risk of being hit from behind. ...

That's a matter of judgement, though, isn't it? I generally associate a *significantly* increased risk of being hit from behind with a combination of low visibility (this could include a low sun hazard) and high traffic speed. I have taken an inside position, or even ridden on a paved shoulder on roads where traffic speed is high and other hazards exist that may make me less likely to be seen (independent of the speed). Even then it somewhat depends upon the situation and where I think the highest risk is coming from. I may still take primary if, for example, I also have to deal with a junction where there are cars waiting to turn out. Or there is a tractor oncoming and impatient drivers looking like they want to overtake, or the driver behind clearly knows I am there and has been following patiently and there are other hazards to deal with...

Each situation has to be dealt with according to its own problems and merits.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom