Cycling UK Forum

mod insertion: this topic was split from 'Female Cyclist Death in North London' viewtopic.php?f=7&t=93572

reohn2 wrote:

Grandad wrote:

Tipper drivers are generally paid per drop rather than a wage so for them driving recklessly means more money

My HGV driving son-in-law tells me that this is practice is now illegal but like so any other motoring laws is often ignored.

If this is correct presumably the police look into this aspect when investigating these fatal collisions.

I wouldn't presume the police thoroughly investigate many crashes these days.

They will certainly be investigating this one.

Early indications are that it may be a brake failure, so vehicle maintenance records will be scrutinised over the next few days. The steep hills of Bath are the worst place to find out your brakes are not doing what they are supposed to. Terrible for everyone involved.

It now transpires that the driver of the Bath tipper truck was only 19 years old, and had passed his HGV only a few days before.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... lip-potter
Sorry, but words fail me...

661-Pete wrote:It now transpires that the driver of the Bath tipper truck was only 19 years old, and had passed his HGV only a few days before.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... lip-potter
Sorry, but words fail me...

I was under the impression you had to be 21 to drive an HGV over 7.5 tonnes,has the law changed?

661-Pete wrote:It now transpires that the driver of the Bath tipper truck was only 19 years old, and had passed his HGV only a few days before.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... lip-potter
Sorry, but words fail me...

We don't know what happened, and police are still investigating. His age and expereience may have nothing to do with what happened.

According to the BBC*

He had been licensed to drive the truck for months but recently passed a more advanced test to drive other heavy goods vehicles....There has been no public comment from Mr Potter but postings on Facebook suggest he passed his HGV test the day after his 19th birthday. Legally, the test can be taken from the age of 18.

However, it is understood he passed his LGV licence - required to operate the eight-wheeled tipper truck - some months earlier, and he has long-term experience with heavy farm vehicles.

Witnesses said that he seemed to be trying to avert an accident, despite what they thought was brake failure. Perhaps he did what any responsible person would, and did his best. Perhaps he averted a greater tragedy that would have killed more people.

We don't know what happened, and we don't have enough information to take make any judgements.

p.s. he's old enough to die for his country, or fly a fighter jet

* http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-somerset-31454693

Vorpal
I wasn't suggesting it was his fault in any way,only that I was unaware the age for HGV drivers had been reduced.

reohn2 wrote:Vorpal
I wasn't suggesting it was his fault in any way,only that I was unaware the age for HGV drivers had been reduced.

I wasn't trying to imply that you were apportioning blame. Sorry if you took it that way.

I wasn't suggesting it was his fault in any way

Whereas I was - I suppose. I'm sorry, I refuse to adopt a politically correct stance here. Some people at the wheel are simply too young. This unfortunate driver, true, may have been blameless for the accident, and I accept that he has not been charged. But I'm afraid statistics point otherwise.
If people don't like what I post, by all means refute it.

661-Pete wrote:

I wasn't suggesting it was his fault in any way

Whereas I was - I suppose. I'm sorry, I refuse to adopt a politically correct stance here. Some people at the wheel are simply too young. This unfortunate driver, true, may have been blameless for the accident, and I accept that he has not been charged. But I'm afraid statistics point otherwise.
If people don't like what I post, by all means refute it.

But it is a fallacy to apply population statistics to an individual. And I have met 19 year olds that I would sooner trust behind the wheel of a lorry than some 40 or 50 year olds.

Surely we should wait and see what the police investigation reveals. If the driver was at fault, we can talk about that later. But we are likely to be told that there was a fault with the brakes. If so, the driver may in fact be one of the victims.

Without speculating about the driver or the vehicle, thanks to the wonders of streetview, we can look at the scene and even more important, the approach to it.

I understand from the reports that this fatal crash occurred on Lansdowne Lane, Bath.

If the link works, this is where traffic approaching the scene downhill turns off the main road whose speed limit is 50mph.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Lansdo ... .02,,0,6.1

At that point, there's nothing but the view of the general landscape to alert anybody that they are about to go down a very steep hill. The road is signed as being subject to the national speed limit (60mph on a single carriageway) and there's a width restriction. Apart from futile SLOW markings on the road, using streetview (so I may have missed something) a road user is some way down the hill before they are quite suddenly confronted with a STEEP HILL 20% sign (that's one in five in the old money) and a sign warning of a zig-zag bend.

Further down the hill, there are countdown markers to the start of the 30mph, warnings of speed enforcement and other signs of so-called accident prevention measures.

I would be speculating if I suggested that the vehicle involved in this collision may not have been the only such lorry delivering big loads of building materials along this route, school or no school.

As a society, we allow this type of thing to happen.

I speak as a grandparent who often walks with small children in public. Thankfully there are no really steep hills around here. My thoughts are with the as yet unnamed grandmother of the deceased Mitzie Stready, who is lying in hospital seriously injured. There but for fortune...

Sometimes lorries delivering building materials have to go down very steep hills. It depends where they are delivering to. Wherever there are buildings there are deliveries. The vehicle should be able to cope. If the lorry was unable to brake effectively it was probably due to a brake failure. If an individual is to blame he / she must be suffering now.

pwa wrote:Sometimes lorries delivering building materials have to go down very steep hills. It depends where they are delivering to. Wherever there are buildings there are deliveries. The vehicle should be able to cope. If the lorry was unable to brake effectively it was probably due to a brake failure. If an individual is to blame he / she must be suffering now.

Not wanting to speculate but,It's my understanding brake failure on HGVs(loss of air) renders default to brakes on.
There's also the gearbox to slow motor vehicles,going down thought the 'box can slow any motor vehicle to a walking pace.

Obviously it's a tragedy and my thoughts are with all the families concerned.

As a, sometimes truck driver, I can confirm that the default on brake failure is to stop the vehicle immediately. It has happened to me in the past. There is also an exhaust brake option. On a steep hill on approach he should be, brake, change down, brake, change down until he is in almost crawler gear using engine braking. I can't imagine why this was not happening.

bigjim wrote:As a, sometimes truck driver, I can confirm that the default on brake failure is to stop the vehicle immediately. It has happened to me in the past. There is also an exhaust brake option. On a steep hill on approach he should be, brake, change down, brake, change down until he is in almost crawler gear using engine braking. I can't imagine why this was not happening.

Totally agree bigjim and would also add that the lorry will not even move on start up if the brake pressure air tank is not full up.
As for the driver being 19 that as got to be wrong as you definitely need to be 21 to drive an eight wheel tipper which I think the vehicle is.