Tipper crash in Bath

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Vorpal
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby Vorpal » 27 Jan 2017, 10:36pm

VOSA changed a few years ago from regular inspections and audits to something called Operator Compliance Risk Score (OCRS) system. They have increased roadside checks, but hauliers who don't want their vehicles checked can generally avoid them.

I don't know much about the Operator Compliance Risk Score (OCRS), becuase it was introduced around the time that I moved away. However, there is plenty of informaiton available about it, and if you think that it is inadequate (more likely with smaller firms?) it may be worth writing to VOSA.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

arnsider
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby arnsider » 31 Jan 2017, 12:57pm

All this angst and indignation suggests one thing to me.
It is a very tall order expecting commercial traffic to co exist safely with domestic traffic.
That's precisely what society allows to happen.
It would be OK if our government enacted laws that were sufficiently strict, but the ones we have are not in any way sufficient, neither are the policing of our roads adequate for purpose.
Tipper drivers are one of the most lawless groups of HGV operators. I work in Civil Engineering and I've seen some real wrecks on site.
Another type of vehicle that should attract more police attention is those high sided articulated waste truck that never seem to be sheeted up and spew stiro foam and debris from there bursting skips.
It is an irony that before the Beeching axe fell, Thousands of tonnes of coal and limestone entered the city of Bath via the Somerset and Dorset Railway.
Indeed the whole of the North Somerset Coalfield and all the numerous limestone quarries on the Mendips had Rail heads.

pwa
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby pwa » 31 Jan 2017, 1:17pm

It is obviously true to say that we need the police to enforce standards of vehicle maintenance. And I have been pulled over a few times whilst driving commercial vehicles, for routine checks. I've always welcomed that. The police doing their job properly.

Many years ago I had a summer job with a landscaping company that I soon came to see as a cowboy operation. On one occasion I drove a Nissan Cabstar truck loaded with soil for them, and at a roundabout I discovered that the brakes left a lot to be desired. I soon left that outfit. I still feel disgust for their shambolic amateurish operation, of which their unroadworthy truck was a symptom. The owner of the company was an accountant who worked for a large Japanese company here in South Wales and at the same time hired a slapdash manager to run his landscaping outfit. The only way to ensure any compliance from people like that is to detect failings through frequent inspection, and closing down repeat offenders.

thirdcrank
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby thirdcrank » 31 Jan 2017, 1:37pm

I've posted before - possibly on this thread - about a superintendent in the traffic department who had kept his HGV licence up-to-date. He's been retired even longer than I have. Anybody with a driving licence can do a reasonable check of most stuff on a car for faults. I won't go into all the twiddly bits about the power to do so, and if they think there's a serious mechanical fault eg brakes or steering, they need a somebody with the right qualification to give expert evidence: in my now far off youth, that was just a matter of radioing for what we in Leeds referred to as a brake mechanic (a traffic PC with the relevant training.)

HGV's have always needed more than that, except for the most basic stuff like lights. Training is expensive and nobody likes paying for any that's "unnecessary." Tachometers are but one example. There's an element of bluff here and the driver of a big truck has a lot over somebody who can't drive it. Get awkward with somebody who knows the specialist law and who's licensed to drive it and there's the implied possibility of the PC saying "move over driver.... and do you want to call your transport manager or shall I get the control room to do it?" And so on.

As it is, it seems we have a largely self-assessment based scheme, which may be largely OK for some well-run companies but which is a rodeo for the cowboys. There's a suggestion that if you have a reputation for being naughty, you may attract more official intention but without day-to-day on-the-road enforcement, how does anybody get onto that radar?

And I've not noticed any call for change since this case was at court.

whoof
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby whoof » 31 Jan 2017, 2:01pm

BakfietsUK wrote:I don't think the people that witnessed this tragedy will forget it by Monday morning. If they are anything like me it's image will remain for the rest of their lives, despite every effort to try and forget it.



But unfortunately there are those seem very able to put such events behind them and carry on as before.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ki ... al-9695173

thirdcrank
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby thirdcrank » 31 Jan 2017, 2:09pm

whoof wrote:[ ...
But unfortunately there are those seem very able to put such events behind them and carry on as before.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ki ... al-9695173


Already a thread about that

viewtopic.php?p=1091872#p1091872

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Redvee
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby Redvee » 3 May 2017, 2:11am

One of those connected to Grittenham Haulage, has been granted a new O-licence to operate on the same site as that company. :shock:

http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/bat ... -o-licence

Vorpal
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby Vorpal » 3 May 2017, 6:25am

Redvee wrote:One of those connected to Grittenham Haulage, has been granted a new O-licence to operate on the same site as that company. :shock:

http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/bat ... -o-licence


Given the site's and the person's history, how in *hell* can anyone consider granting them a licence to operate haulage vehicles?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

firedfromthecircus
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby firedfromthecircus » 3 May 2017, 9:05am

Vorpal wrote:
Redvee wrote:One of those connected to Grittenham Haulage, has been granted a new O-licence to operate on the same site as that company. :shock:

http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/bat ... -o-licence


Given the site's and the person's history, how in *hell* can anyone consider granting them a licence to operate haulage vehicles?



The O license must be viewed in the same light as the driving license. It is obviously every-ones birthright to have one regardless of how incompetent they have shown themselves to be! :x

Don't worry. These people are only in charge of our safety.

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Redvee
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby Redvee » 17 May 2017, 1:49am

Following a DVSA check, the O licence for Simon Nicholls has been revoked.

Simon Nicholls, who is associated with Grittenham Haulage, has had his O-licence revoked for a number of offences.

He was granted the licence last year after an 18-month application process and two public inquiries (PIs).

At a PI in Bristol today (16 May) traffic commissioner (TC) for the West of England Kevin Rooney was told that a DVSA inspection on 31 January raised concerns about the operator's ability to maintain his vehicles in a fit and roadworthy condition.

Evidence was given that in December 2016 Nicholls had been running a vehicle that was not named on his O-Licence until March 2017.

Nicholls told the TC that numerous vehicle movements recorded on a vehicle in December were him trying to locate and repair a maintenance fault.

The DVSA questioned this, pointing out that the vehicles had been loaded, and Nicholls later admitted some of the movements had been to move materials connected to his business.

TC Rooney said of one of the days in question: "It looks like you've done four or five return loads."

Announcing his decision to revoke Nicholl's O-licence, TC Rooney said: "Some of the things I've seen today have been quite scary... you have displayed a woeful lack of knowledge. You appear incapable of getting on and getting things done."

He also criticised Nicholls for allowing Karen Wood, who carries out administration for his business, to send emails to the office of the traffic commissioner impersonating Simon Nicholls.

Nicholls' repute as a transport manager was removed and the TC said he would make a future decision on a suitable period of disqualification.



http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/com ... ce-revoked

Vorpal
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Re: Tipper crash in Bath

Postby Vorpal » 17 May 2017, 4:50am

Redvee wrote:Following a DVSA check, the O licence for Simon Nicholls has been revoked.

Good. It should never have been issued.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom