Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

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661-Pete
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Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby 661-Pete » 19 Feb 2015, 1:16pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31531120
I don't know what to say. The same story over and over again. :(
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foxyrider
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby foxyrider » 19 Feb 2015, 3:10pm

and this years theme seems to be young women :?
Convention? what's that then?
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby kwackers » 19 Feb 2015, 4:06pm

foxyrider wrote:and this years theme seems to be young women :?

Isn't that the theme of every year? If not *all* it seems to be the theme of most.

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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby foxyrider » 19 Feb 2015, 4:49pm

kwackers wrote:
foxyrider wrote:and this years theme seems to be young women :?

Isn't that the theme of every year? If not *all* it seems to be the theme of most.

If thats the case perhaps training aimed specifically at this group of riders is needed?
Convention? what's that then?
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661-Pete
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby 661-Pete » 19 Feb 2015, 5:01pm

foxyrider wrote:If thats the case perhaps training aimed specifically at this group of riders is needed?

I'm beginning to regret starting this thread. But another life has been lost needlessly, the circumstances seem very similar to those of a large number of recent tragedies: surely it's even worse to merely ignore this news item!?

What I regret is starting a thread, if the only result is going to be a spate of victim-blaming, whether intended or not. This death occurred only a few hours ago, surely it's far too early to apportion blame.

All I can say is, condolences to the friends and family of the deceased. I wish it were the last time I had to post those words.
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pwa
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby pwa » 19 Feb 2015, 5:27pm

Pete
you are right to point out that first and foremost this is a sickening loss of life, regardless of the technical issues regarding "blame".

But we are right to want to know why these things happen, and to want to do what we can to prevent the same thing happening again. So don't regret starting this thread. You've done the right thing.

Until we know exactly what went wrong we cannot say for certain how we can prevent similar accidents in the future, but I am sure we can all agree that we do need answers. Are lorries overtaking cyclists on tight left hand bends? Are inexperienced cyclists passing lorries on the left on left hand bends? Whatever the causes of these deaths, we need answers and we need them quickly. Being able to blame someone is not the real aim. The real aim is to prevent future tragedies.

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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby The fat commuter » 19 Feb 2015, 5:37pm

As above, condolences to the family and friends of the cyclist. Another life lost.

These are going to sound like harsh words but once the inquest is over for this, will we get to find out exactly what happened? There is some blame somewhere - 100% lorry driver, 100% cyclist - or somewhere in between. However, if we knew whether there was some similarity between all these very sad deaths and it was something that a cyclist did then maybe cyclists could be educated. Novice cyclists need to know that whilst a bike can be faster than motor vehicles in a city, when approaching a bend or a junction, they need to be in primary in front of or behind vehicles - especially long ones. Obviously in this case we don't know what happened. If we do ever find out what happened though and are able to prepare cyclists and lorry drivers then maybe fewer lives will be lost.

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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 Feb 2015, 5:40pm

foxyrider wrote:
kwackers wrote:
foxyrider wrote:and this years theme seems to be young women :?

Isn't that the theme of every year? If not *all* it seems to be the theme of most.

If thats the case perhaps training aimed specifically at this group of riders is needed?


I think training for this set of *drivers* is needed.

Additional safety devices (mirrors, banksmen) are clearly needed on these vehicles in London (and probably elsewhere).

The fact that it is yet another construction vehicle just shows how idiotic and short sighted were the decisions to exempt that class of vehicle from requirements for side barriers and additional mirrors etc.
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby Phil Fouracre » 19 Feb 2015, 5:54pm

Absolutely horrible, and so very sad. I really wish there was an answer. Yes, we can all blame the driver, and, yes I agree it is primarily his responsibility. But, and it seems to be a very large but, there seems to be a disconnect with some cyclists, yes, mainly woman, between their safety and proximity to larger vehicles. I had a perfect example just recently, when having seen a female cyclist, ride up the side of a lorry at a junction, along a 'painted strip of road'!! I rode alongside her after we had cleared the junction. When I conversationally pointed out that she had been a bit vulnerable back there she kindly pointed that that was where cyclists were supposed to go, and what did I know as I was a stupid old fool (probably old enough yo be her grandfather!!) sadly reminded of the old adage 'stupid is forever' Sorry, really don't know the answer
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby TonyR » 19 Feb 2015, 6:07pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Additional safety devices (mirrors, banksmen) are clearly needed on these vehicles in London (and probably elsewhere).

The fact that it is yet another construction vehicle just shows how idiotic and short sighted were the decisions to exempt that class of vehicle from requirements for side barriers and additional mirrors etc.


All of these will become mandatory in London this year from 1 September. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/freight/ ... rry-scheme

But as they say, the single most important piece of safety equipment in a vehicle is the nut holding the steering wheel.

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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby SteveHunter » 19 Feb 2015, 7:03pm

Unfortunately yet another needless loss of life on Londons roads.

Also unfortunately I know the circumstances of todays incident, wrong place at wrong time, and certainly in this instance I don't think we can really lay the blame on the driver of the lorry.

The lorry was turning left. The lorry, was already manoeuvring when the cyclist tried to pass the lorry on the left hand side to either attempt to turn left or go straight ahead, unfortunately there wasn't room.

I see too many cyclists try and squeeze down the left hand side of lorries and buses at junctions when I'm riding in London, lorries do need to be safer but a lot of cyclists really do need to accept a bit more responsibility for the way they cut through traffic.
Last edited by SteveHunter on 22 Feb 2015, 12:07pm, edited 1 time in total.

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661-Pete
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby 661-Pete » 19 Feb 2015, 7:09pm

The fat commuter wrote:These are going to sound like harsh words but once the inquest is over for this, will we get to find out exactly what happened?

I share your misgivings. Quite possibly, not.

So - in addition to all the legislation for wide-field mirrors and (possibly) banksmen (though that last would push up the overall Cost of Living - but at the same time reduce unemployment) - I would like to see mandatory video cameras on all lorries and buses, covering the entire nearside of the vehicle. Surely that's not much to ask: I reckon many HGVs already have cameras onboard, but they're probably mounted in the cab and facing forward. So - a bit of tamper-proof evidence-gathering? It won't save lives in itself, but it might point us in the direction of overcoming this spate of tragedies. And good quality video cameras have become so cheap nowadays. A lot cheaper than a human life.

[edit] I posted this before seeing SteveHunter's post.
Last edited by 661-Pete on 19 Feb 2015, 7:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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661-Pete
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby 661-Pete » 19 Feb 2015, 7:12pm

SteveHunter wrote:Also unfortunately I know the circumstances of todays incident, wrong place at wrong time, and certainly in this instance I don't think we can really lay the blame on the driver of the lorry.
Steve, I am sorry, that must have been a horrible experience for you too. You have my sympathy.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

SteveHunter
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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby SteveHunter » 19 Feb 2015, 7:29pm

I've had better days. Large scotch required when I get home.

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Re: Another cyclist death: left-turning lorry

Postby phil parker » 19 Feb 2015, 8:04pm

SteveHunter wrote:Unfortunately yet another needless loss of life on Londons roads.

Also unfortunately I know the circumstances of todays incident, wrong place at wrong time, and certainly in this instance I don't think we can really lay the blame on the driver of the lorry.

The lorry was turning left and was indicating and had audible warnings. The lorry, which I was behind, was already manoeuvring when the cyclist passed me on the left and then tried to pass the lorry on the left hand side to either attempt to turn left or go straight ahead, unfortunately there wasn't room.


I thought that might be the case, but my sincere condolences to friend and family. Unfortunately, some cyclists need to be aware of their vulnerability and where the danger can & can't be avoided.

Enjoy that scotch - if that's the right sentiment?