Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.

What do you do?

Safe: Trigger the lights. Take the bike path.
6
26%
Quick: Trigger the lights, stopping the traffic & enabling you to join. Take the road. This has a safety benefit of not being tail-gated by the car now waiting at the lights down the hill. May also cause road rage from driver who had to stop.
13
57%
Scary: Don't trigger the lights, join the traffic with potentially scary downhill & further lights to negotiate.
4
17%
 
Total votes: 23

SpinyNorman
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Joined: 29 May 2015, 12:57pm

Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by SpinyNorman »

Here's the set-up: https://goo.gl/Ea8fFg

There are two routes from standing at the crossing on the left:

    A) Crossing the light left to right there is a cycle path which winds though the housing estate & joins a main arterial cycle path. This route sometimes is littered with broken glass.

    B) Going through the lights on road, there is a left turn at the roundabout at the crest of the hill, then a fast downhill to another set of lights which joins the same arterial path. This route is quicker.

The traffic is fairly heavy. What do you do?

Bonus question. Is #2 within the law?
Bicycler
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by Bicycler »

SpinyNorman wrote:Here's the set-up: https://goo.gl/Ea8fFg
There are two routes from standing at the crossing on the left:
    A) Crossing the light left to right there is a cycle path which winds though the housing estate & joins a main arterial cycle path. This route sometimes is littered with broken glass.
    B) Going through the lights on road, there is a left turn at the roundabout at the crest of the hill, then a fast downhill to another set of lights which joins the same arterial path. This route is quicker.
Bonus question. Is #2 within the law?

If you'd asked is it legal to trigger the lights when joining at a crossing I would have said, unequivocally, yes, and indeed that is probably technically correct thing to do. Using the lights just to hold up other traffic OTOH, if it could be proved (and I don't see how it could be unless you say so directly like you do in one of the options above), could be interpreted as "inconsiderate cycling" which is an offence. Highly unlikely to come to that though.

Your bigger problem might be if the delayed motorist catches up with you and believes you to be in the wrong
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

yes yes yes,

press the button any time you can to slow the motorized terrorists.
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beardy
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by beardy »

Unfortunately the motorists have won the media war and if you go pressing the buttons like that it will be you described as the extremist.

I think they have also got the technological advantage and pressing the button is ineffective unless you remain there until it acts.
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gaz
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by gaz »

Previous thread that relates to #2: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=92075
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ferdinand
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by ferdinand »

I'm disappointed.

I thought the title meant you were borrowing a pelican and making like Rod Hull on your local zebra crossing.

The video would be interesting.

F
PRL
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Location: Richmond upon Thames

Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by PRL »

A similar situation applies at the west end of Kingston Bridge . The cycle track over the bridge terminates vaguely but a toucan crossing allows cyclists to get into the correct lane for the roundabout straight ahead. Perhaps the Highway Code should give advice.
SpinyNorman
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Joined: 29 May 2015, 12:57pm

Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by SpinyNorman »

Thanks all, there's some interesting (and long) discussion around this :)

I think I'll just live by the rule of "do what people expect" which seems to often be the smoothest path.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

ferdinand wrote:I'm disappointed.

I thought the title meant you were borrowing a pelican and making like Rod Hull on your local zebra crossing.

The video would be interesting.

F

:lol:
Tonyf33
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by Tonyf33 »

For me I'd plonk the bike at the side of the road as far as I could get it to the position I intend to take, mount and then set off at the merest hint of a gap, given it's downhill that shouldn't be that difficult and taking a fully central position if reaching near the speed of the rest of the traffic.

Another way to not irk the motorists is to press the button and walk a ways down the hill away from the crossing, by the time the lights change those actually seeing you pressing it are long gone, those stopping will just think it's a fault or a pedestrian that has already crossed.
Dilemma solved :D
brooksby
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by brooksby »

Near my place of work there's a two lanes each way major road, usually crammed with motor vehicles. There's a cycle lane marked along one side (going out of the city centre), and on the far side (going the other way, toward the city centre) there's a bus lane which cyclists can use. The crossing is a toucan into the centre island, then another toucan to get across (there used to be a footbridge, but someone decided it took up too much floor space...). For a number of reasons I sometimes have to go out of town as far as this crossing and then back again. I use the first toucan to cross (riding), and then when the second toucan changes I come off of it going right to get back onto the road (I never use the bus lane, our local bus drivers all seem to have personal issues...). If I time the approach to the traffic lights right when I am riding on the cycle lane, if I come to them and they are red then I just turn right and join the crossing pedestrians.

Anyway, my point is, reading this thread and the other one referenced therein, am I using the toucan correctly? Can I ride across it, and can I turn right out of it to go onto the road?
Bicycler
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by Bicycler »

brooksby wrote:Anyway, my point is, reading this thread and the other one referenced therein, am I using the toucan correctly?

It is not entirely clear from your post whether the cycle lane you use is on the road or to the side of it. As a vehicle on the road you are required to stop for the red light which applies to all traffic. If you are entering the crossing from an on-road cycle lane by crossing the stop line whilst the red light is showing you are committing an offence. There is usually some means by which cycles are allowed access from the road onto the pavements near toucans. Technically you should first access these, then access the crossing from there, not the road.

Can I ride across it

Yes, this is the intended purpose of a toucan crossing (with a green man and a green cycle symbol). If it is a pelican (or puffin) crossing (green man symbol only) you can still use the crossing but you must dismount and push.

can I turn right out of it to go onto the road?

Yes, it's a perfectly acceptable use of a toucan.
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mjr
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by mjr »

Tonyf33 wrote:Another way to not irk the motorists is to press the button and walk a ways down the hill away from the crossing, by the time the lights change those actually seeing you pressing it are long gone, those stopping will just think it's a fault or a pedestrian that has already crossed.
Dilemma solved :D

Not really - the street view shows IR sensor boxes on the top of the lights, indicating a Puffin-style Toucan, so it should cancel if there's no-one waiting to cross.

I use some Toucans to turn right both onto or off of cycle tracks - or even left off of them, if motor traffic is heavy.

(Edited to fix the bold bit)
Last edited by mjr on 3 Jun 2015, 4:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tonyf33
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by Tonyf33 »

mjr wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:Another way to not irk the motorists is to press the button and walk a ways down the hill away from the crossing, by the time the lights change those actually seeing you pressing it are long gone, those stopping will just think it's a fault or a pedestrian that has already crossed.
Dilemma solved :D

Not really - the street view shows IR sensor boxes on the top of the lights, indicating a Puffin-style Toucan, so it'll cancel if there's no-one waiting to cross.

I use some Toucans to turn right both onto or off of cycle tracks - or even left off of them, if motor traffic is heavy.

Sorry but I don't agree, whilst you might have to press and be in the line of the IR for a couple of seconds all the ones I've ever used activate a good 30+ seconds or so later well after people have got fed up waiting for the lights to change and crossed in a gap
So that will still work, you do not have to stand there right up until the light changes and that allows time to pedal down a good few metres ready for the lights to turn red.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Is it OK to stop traffic with a Pelican/Toucan?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Yes, always press the button to slow down the terrorists whether one wants to cross, join the road or not

ALWAYS press the button!

Also after crossing, wait a moment till the light is red again, hit the button, the next people who want to walk across will not have to wait so long then
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 14 Dec 2017, 6:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
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