Cycling UK Forum

kuba wrote:

irc wrote:I've had people attempt something similar with no provocation.

Interesting, nothing similar ever happened to me and I cycle thousands of miles each year. So I guess it must have something to do with the way you behave on the road.

As every time was on quiet roads around midnight at a weekend I'd suggest the common factor was alcohol but I wasn't stopping to breathalyse them. And every case was on the same stretch of road through one part of the city, maybe 10% of my commute. The same area where a district nurse riding to work got a broken arm when she was shoved to the ground in a random attack. Also late at night.

irc wrote:

kuba wrote:

irc wrote:I've had people attempt something similar with no provocation.

Interesting, nothing similar ever happened to me and I cycle thousands of miles each year. So I guess it must have something to do with the way you behave on the road.

As every time was on quiet roads around midnight at a weekend I'd suggest the common factor was alcohol but I wasn't stopping to breathalyse them. And every case was on the same stretch of road through one part of the city, maybe 10% of my commute. The same area where a district nurse riding to work got a broken arm when she was shoved to the ground in a random attack. Also late at night.

My comment was just to highlight the inappropriateness of 'what the cyclist should have done differently' discussion. Everyone makes errors when they ride or drive, and we can always do things differently and probably better. But there's just one side to blame in this case and, irony aside, I have no reason to doubt it was similar in your experience.

Rather than prolonging the debate about whether the cyclist was 'right' or 'wrong' at the pedestrian crossing (I notice that the road works may have made it more difficult for pedestrians to see the red/green-man).....

Isn't this whole issue more to do with anger management and some individuals having a tendency to 'lose it' and get out of control? That appears to be what this young man has done. And I'll bet that if the police come over all heavy on him, that might be his defence - that he has an anger management issue which he now proposes to address.

I speak as someone who has indeed had what you might call a 'short fuse' at times. I hope it wouldn't ever go to such extremity as in this incident. So I try to picture myself as the aggrieved pedestrian. Suppose the cyclist had done all the worst things? Cut me up on the crossing, forcing me to leap backwards, then given me verbal and the 'finger'? I'm not saying that's what did happen, I don't know - but I'm just proposing this as a possible scenario. How would I have reacted? Well, I probably wouldn't have caught up with the cyclist - my sprinting prowess is certainly not equal to this young man's! But if I had, I might have launched into a tirade - and no doubt it would have included several words beginning with 'f' and 'c'. I sincerely hope, that's as far as it would get. And even that would leave me feeling ashamed - after the event.

What I can't answer - I'm no psychologist - is how much it would take to progress from the sort of level to which I might descend - to the more extreme level of throwing a punch and knocking the cyclist off (and coming close to killing her). And how many people there are in our society who might take it that far - if sufficiently provoked.

I think I've said enough. Anyone else want to take up this point?

661-Pete wrote:What I can't answer - I'm no psychologist - is how much it would take to progress from the sort of level to which I might descend - to the more extreme level of throwing a punch and knocking the cyclist off (and coming close to killing her). And how many people there are in our society who might take it that far - if sufficiently provoked.

I think I've said enough. Anyone else want to take up this point?

IMHO the problem is a social one based on huge,me first,get out of my way,I'm the important one here and everyone else is second,attitude.
Such people see themselves as the centre and everyone else as peripheral to them and as such no one matters in their world outlook.
It's easy for such people to cause harm to those they see as weaker than them,in fact IMO I believe it satisfies and cements their world view to do it.
Such people are underdeveloped as civilised humans,I see it all the time from the very subtle to the gross (as in this case).
They need to bully to boost their inflated ego,because they can't accept they're just like any other person on the street,and feel a need stamp their authority on as they see it,weaklings/lesser people.

The motor car is a perfect example of the perfect vehicle to carry out this scenario almost with impunity.

I believe it's a very UK disease,especially in densely populated areas.

My 2d's worth

reohn2 wrote:IMHO the problem is a social one based on huge,me first,get out of my way,I'm the important one here and everyone else is second,attitude.

I agree, there's a lot of that sort of stuff around, and it may well have been the force that drove that young man to do - what he did. If the reports that he turned himself in to the Plod are true, it would be interesting and instructive to have been a fly-on-the-wall whilst he was being interviewed by them and making his excuses...

In my case, these fits of anger are more likely to come when I'm on a 'down' with depression or anxiety, which isn't all the time. Then something perfectly trivial can set me off - even inanimate things. Like - say - I've just patched a puncture and the tyre is still leaking because I didn't notice the second hole of a snakebite.

But I can react badly to what other people do quite innocently - or not so innocently - too. Some years ago, my depression was getting at me rather more deeply than usual, for various reasons. A pedestrian took it upon himself to berate me for not signalling when turning right - though there was no other traffic and I was nowhere near being on a collision course with him (it was winter and icy, I was on a slight downhill, heavily laden, and needed both hands on the brakes). Anyway, I did not directly confront this bloke. But the stream of invective peppered with f-words which I yelled out, as I rode away from him, could probably have been heard across town. Proud of that episode? Most certainly not. A little later my shouting dissolved into tears.

Some interesting and very honest comments. I still believe that all these conflict situations are purely down to people, not anything to do with pedestrian, cyclists, van, car or lorry drivers. You really don't know anything about the 'other person', they could be the most placid, friendly person you could hope to meet, or, just released from prison! Alright, perhaps a bit extreme.
Self preservation has to be the default, in every situation. I'm not saying that you have to defer to anyone, or, as cyclists, 'give in' to drivers etc, but look at every situation individually. We have a family friend, who, incidentally, doesn't cycle, who has had numerous 'road rage' incidents. I was always intrigued by her latest 'story', until I drove with her - I then fully understood
Another good friend, nicest bloke you could wish to meet, one day proudly told us about an incident when the 'red mist' descended, and he lost it. Quite an eye opener!
What I'mtrying to say is that you can never know what you are dealing with so try and treat everything with a degree of equanimity, no matter how irritating it might be. You never know, the driver may have just been sacked, or, found his wife in bed with the milkman

Phil Fouracre wrote:...........................................
Self preservation has to be the default, in every situation. I'm not saying that you have to defer to anyone, or, as cyclists, 'give in' to drivers etc, but look at every situation individually. We have a family friend, who, incidentally, doesn't cycle, who has had numerous 'road rage' incidents. I was always intrigued by her latest 'story', until I drove with her - I then fully understood
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)

What was she doing?

Flinders.
Has it taken so long for curiosity to get the better of you

Flinders wrote:

Phil Fouracre wrote:...........................................
Self preservation has to be the default, in every situation. I'm not saying that you have to defer to anyone, or, as cyclists, 'give in' to drivers etc, but look at every situation individually. We have a family friend, who, incidentally, doesn't cycle, who has had numerous 'road rage' incidents. I was always intrigued by her latest 'story', until I drove with her - I then fully understood
.........................................................................
)

What was she doing?

Probably obeying the speed limit, stopping for amber lights, to let pedestrians cross the road, not entering yellow boxes until the exit was clear and all those other similar things that get drivers very angry.

reohn2 wrote:Flinders.
Has it taken so long for curiosity to get the better of you

Yep, I'm a bit behind with things this week.

Too many things to list I'm not a nervous driver or cyclist, but, she worried me. Just a complete lack of any judgement as far as where she was going, what everyone else was doing or looked like they might be going to. No anticipation of any sort, as well as not seeming to know how to smoothly control the vehicle. Just too nerve wracking!

Phil Fouracre wrote:, as well as not seeming to know how to smoothly control the vehicle. Just too nerve wracking!

I find when my wife is driving that relaxing my neck to let my head bounce backwards and forwards when she brakes harshly gets the message across. And a verbal slapping down

Yeah, a slapping down would be a minimum trouble is she would probably then let go of the wheel and put both hands round my neck!!!!!

Because a cyclist was assaulted nothing will be done.

If a person is assaulted whilst not having a bike on their person then a different story.

sore thumb wrote:Because a cyclist was assaulted nothing will be done.

If a person is assaulted whilst not having a bike on their person then a different story.

The video was released by the police. Hardly going to do that if nothing is to be done, in fact they fact it was released by the police shows something is being done (trying to find the person in question)