Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby SA_SA_SA » 28 Aug 2015, 2:49pm

kuba wrote:Yes it it true the HC states....


Because its not against UK law for a pedestrian to ignore the advice offered by the display of the red man at a pedestrian road crossing:
if safe to do so, they can legally cross when it is showing. I presume the HC glosses over this due to a car centric viewpoint/ desire to control pedestrians/ the modern trend for over-simplifying information to the point of uselessness etc. If it was a legal requirement the HC would say pedestrians MUST wait at the red figure.

Of course if they step out in front of a vehicle without allowing it time to stop or even looking, and a collision ensues, I don't think a court would view them as 0% negligent in the apportioning of blame.

I say +1 to what Vorpal said.
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Audax67
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby Audax67 » 28 Aug 2015, 2:56pm

SA_SA_SA wrote:
kuba wrote:Yes it it true the HC states....


Because its not against UK law for a pedestrian to ignore the advice offered by the display of the red man at a pedestrian road crossing:
if safe to do so, they can legally cross when it is showing. I presume the HC glosses over this due to a car centric viewpoint/ desire to control pedestrians/ the modern trend for over-simplifying information to the point of uselessness etc. If it was a legal requirement the HC would say pedestrians MUST wait at the red figure.

Of course if they step out in front of a vehicle without allowing it time to stop or even looking, and a collision ensues, I don't think a court would view them as 0% negligent in the apportioning of blame.

I say +1 to what Vorpal said.


Maybe in the UK. I can remember my German driving instructor saying that if a falling-down-drunk pedestrian all in black staggers out backwards from between two parked black vans on an unlit street at night and you hit him, you're responsible. And defying the wee red man can get you an on-the-spot fine. In 1964 this was DM 5.-, dunno what it might be now.
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kuba
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby kuba » 28 Aug 2015, 3:18pm

SA_SA_SA wrote:if safe to do so, they can legally cross when it is showing.


Sure, but that's hardly the case in the discussed video.

aspiringcyclist
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby aspiringcyclist » 28 Aug 2015, 4:04pm

It seems pointless to argue about what she could have done when clearly the person who pushed her has some significant anger management issues. This sort of person seems like they could become enraged at almost anything.

Any post-event discussion will be dealing with the hypothetical based on limited information and has the advantage of hindsight and not actually being in that situation, making it far easier to pass judgement.

reohn2
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2015, 4:35pm

irc wrote:
I agree. But that is where we are. I've personally three times had to shoulder check and swerve across the road to avoid potential attacks from pedestrians in Glasgow while commuting late at night.

Being aware of your surroundings is a safety issue and for me includes what everyone in the immediate area is doing not just vehicles.


Perhaps the cyclist thought it such a trivial encounter she thought the whole thing was past,literally behind her,subsequent actions of a maniac which shows how wrong she was.
Can I put it to you that not everyone expects to be attacked for merely riding a bike on the roads,particularly in broad daylight on a busy street,of course one lady will now know differently,and possibly as a result will feel more anxious and fear being attacked in a public place.
As I said up thread,the incident says more about the state of UK society than we're prepared to consider.
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Flinders wrote:And to go back to the OP, I'm pretty damned certain that pedestrian would not have either tried to cross in front of the bike, or assaulted the cyclist, had the cyclist been one of the cyclists round our local army base, who tend to be big powerful blokes in combat uniforms. So it isn't about someone losing it, it's about a cowardly bully who would only 'lose it' very selectively, i.e., with someone weaker than himself.


Exactly!
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Manc33
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby Manc33 » 28 Aug 2015, 8:02pm

That is more annoying than the assault to me too, that he saw it was a woman and still pushed her.
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irc
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby irc » 28 Aug 2015, 8:14pm

aspiringcyclist wrote:IAny post-event discussion will be dealing with the hypothetical based on limited information and has the advantage of hindsight and not actually being in that situation, making it far easier to pass judgement.


Not at all. We frequently discuss incidents in hindsight. We can often learn by doing this. Not any different from discussing whether riding in primary might have made a crash less likely. In some organisations they have formal debriefs after serious incidents to ascertain with the benefit of hindsight whether anything might have been done better. The ones I've been involved in have not been about blaming but about learning. Better to learn from someone else's mistake than to make them all yourself.

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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby jezer » 28 Aug 2015, 8:39pm

The offender handed himself to the police, but only after the vid was released. He must have realised he could not escape, with his ugly mug all over the Internet. I'd like to think this could be a turning point, with the police taking road crime seriously, and video evidence from victims taken notice of. We'll see, although I'm not holding my breath.
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aspiringcyclist
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby aspiringcyclist » 28 Aug 2015, 9:05pm

irc wrote:
Not at all. We frequently discuss incidents in hindsight. We can often learn by doing this. Not any different from discussing whether riding in primary might have made a crash less likely. In some organisations they have formal debriefs after serious incidents to ascertain with the benefit of hindsight whether anything might have been done better. The ones I've been involved in have not been about blaming but about learning. Better to learn from someone else's mistake than to make them all yourself.


What exactly can we learn here?

This is not a common occurance and isn't very predictable. If someone is willing to push another preson riding a bike into heavy traffic for something as minor as an alleged 'hand sign' then we are not dealing with a normally functioning individual.

You can always find something you could have done 'better' but the level of scrutiny that is sometimes given to these sorts of incidents borders on the absurd. I remember seeing a thread with the met police officer passing a cyclist really closely and many were in a debate about how early he was taking the right hand lane.

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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby irc » 29 Aug 2015, 9:00am

aspiringcyclist wrote:
irc wrote:
Not at all. We frequently discuss incidents in hindsight. We can often learn by doing this. Not any different from discussing whether riding in primary might have made a crash less likely. In some organisations they have formal debriefs after serious incidents to ascertain with the benefit of hindsight whether anything might have been done better. The ones I've been involved in have not been about blaming but about learning. Better to learn from someone else's mistake than to make them all yourself.


What exactly can we learn here?

This is not a common occurance and isn't very predictable. If someone is willing to push another preson riding a bike into heavy traffic for something as minor as an alleged 'hand sign' then we are not dealing with a normally functioning individual.


What can we learn? That if you have an altercation and near miss with someone you are better watch their reaction just in case they are not normal. I've had people attempt something similar with no provocation. She knew something was happening when said "please don't knock me off" but even then didn't think it prudent to do a shoulder check after passing him. The attack wasn't out the blue.

What can we learn? That it might have been better to avoid the near miss by braking or swerving round him.

As for too much time spent analyzing incidents? Perhaps, but feel free not to contribute.

aspiringcyclist
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby aspiringcyclist » 29 Aug 2015, 9:24am

irc wrote:

What can we learn? That if you have an altercation and near miss with someone you are better watch their reaction just in case they are not normal. I've had people attempt something similar with no provocation. She knew something was happening when said "please don't knock me off" but even then didn't think it prudent to do a shoulder check after passing him. The attack wasn't out the blue.

What can we learn? That it might have been better to avoid the near miss by braking or swerving round him.

As for too much time spent analyzing incidents? Perhaps, but feel free not to contribute.


IMO it's too much of an assumption to state that the attack wasn't out of the blue in the sense that she could have predicted it. How do really know this? Say she looked back, what would that do?

And as for breaking or swearing, we have no idea about the speed or how close the traffic was behind to gauge whether that was a good idea. We also don't really know how close they were or whether there was almost a collision. We are judging this by her words ''please don't knock me off'' which cannot be understood unless we ask her why she said that.

kuba
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby kuba » 29 Aug 2015, 3:37pm

irc wrote:I've had people attempt something similar with no provocation.


Interesting, nothing similar ever happened to me and I cycle thousands of miles each year. So I guess it must have something to do with the way you behave on the road. :wink:

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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby maxcherry » 29 Aug 2015, 4:07pm

kuba wrote:
irc wrote:I've had people attempt something similar with no provocation.


Interesting, nothing similar ever happened to me and I cycle thousands of miles each year. So I guess it must have something to do with the way you behave on the road. :wink:



Just because it hasn't happend to you yet why is it that the person who has had a incident be at fault!?
That's just a stupid comment :roll:
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Pedestrian pushes cyclist off bike and into traffic

Postby [XAP]Bob » 30 Aug 2015, 8:20am

kuba wrote:
irc wrote:I've had people attempt something similar with no provocation.


Interesting, nothing similar ever happened to me and I cycle thousands of miles each year. So I guess it must have something to do with the way you behave on the road. :wink:


Or maybe you just haven't come across one of these loons.

I've been assaulted a couple of times - once when asking for insurance details having had a car run into the back of me, once when a motorist got very cross at me filtering past them, whilst they were stopped at lights, to get off a roundabout (I filtered up to second position in the queue).

Frankly motorists behaviour makes no sense, and they generally acknowledge that after they've got out of their metal box and calmed down for a moment.
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