Countryside opening hours

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Cunobelin
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Aug 2018, 10:13am

brynpoeth wrote:"may" or "can"? :wink:


Either ....

The use of may be was intended as "I have no clue as to which areas are or are not permissible, so there "may be" some areas that can be restricted

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Cunobelin
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Aug 2018, 10:26am

We had an interesting one with Bath Lane Recreation Ground in Fareham

It is a cycle;e route that avoids a fast 4 lane road between the A27 and A32

However the Council then put up "NO cycling signs on a sign adjacent the ones indicating the cycle route.

Took about 3 months to get "No Golfing taped across the top of the "No Cycling" part

However it took a further year to get the Cricket Club to understand that the Cycle Track was NOT an area to place their spectator seats, scoring tables and the massive great Scoring board

It was not uncommon to have thirty people standing, sitting in chairs or loungers.

Labrat
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby Labrat » 24 Aug 2018, 8:48pm

Categorically - the signs cannot limit times of access to the rights of way.

Theres a strong argument that the signs may constitute an offence under S57 NP Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/12-13-14/97/section/57

The mention of Amey sounds odd - I suspect someone has passed you on to Highways dept (roads) rather than the rights of way department

Redrhino
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby Redrhino » 14 Sep 2018, 8:53am

Thanks for all the comments. I have a response from the Gloucestershire Public Rights of Way (PROW) officer.

He writes that the Bathurst Estate acknowledge that they cannot restrict use of PROW but ”They are trying to establish a measure of control over the permissive paths and bridleways on the estate without wishing to curtail use of those recorded on the Definitive Map”.

I can see the distinction: private land owners can choose to permit access to their land on their terms, whilst public rights of way are inviolate.
It’s a shame such a misleading sign is allowed to be kept in place. I am told by the officer that it has been there for 10 years.

PH
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby PH » 14 Sep 2018, 11:32am

I'm still unclear if that sign is on a PROW or a permissive bridleway, if it's on the former then is shouldn't be signed as if it were the latter and I wouldn't accept the response you've received.

Redrhino
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby Redrhino » 14 Sep 2018, 6:38pm

The sign is on a normal public access bridleway. Once in the woods there are informal tracks all over the place - I can imagine that these are permissive.

I see your point. If the land owner and the PROW officer agree that the sign is wrong, why are they still there?

sloyd
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby sloyd » 17 Oct 2018, 8:32pm

Next time you’re passing at dusk, remember to have your crow bar with you. Into the hedge with that nonsense.

pwa
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby pwa » 18 Oct 2018, 8:41am

Arguably, a sign that misleads the public into thinking their rights don't exist constitutes an obstruction.

My Missus had a heated discussion with a young bloke on a tractor while she was walking across a field to get access to the sea cliffs near our home. He told her she was trespassing, so she told him she was on a public footpath. He wasn't expecting her to know that (it isn't marked) and he retreated when she showed her knowledge. We have used that path many times since.

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fausto copy
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby fausto copy » 18 Oct 2018, 1:55pm

We've stayed at Cirencester Park caravan site a few times and have walked through the estate into and out of town.
On our last trip we were running late and there was an estate worker closing the gate at 5pm.
Seeing we were loaded down with shopping, he let us through.

I admit I'd never bothered looking at the status of the path through the estate as it's easy enough to cycle from the caravan park on designated cycle paths. However (and I've not checked) if it is a bridlepath, why does it say horse-riding is allowed, but cycling not. :?

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cyclemad
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby cyclemad » 18 Oct 2018, 4:36pm

our family farmed in the Scottish Borders until 2010..Unbeknown to any of us we had a footpath which ran straight across what was our front garden but many years before had been an orchard....Until one day in summer when a group of woolly socked ramblers arrived demanding to cross our garden using '' the footpath''. They had a map with them which had a date win the mid 1800's and they were from a local ''ramblers rights '' group so I told them we had no idea we had a footpath but to go ahead and find it..Off they duly trotted through the mass of the local Young farmers club bbq we were hosting until they came up against a very old hawthorn hedge and an even larger pear tree....Thats when the shouting started...''we know our rights etc ...you are obstructing a free passage etc etc ''' - Police arrived --- can you picture it ???? Just like a fracking protest !!!!!

The result was a legal challenge from them to remove the hedge and pear tree and re=open the long defunct footpath...

This was a very expensive period...luckily not for us as the pear tree was protected under Scottish law - A Jedart Pear - and they lost the case...but....we had to apply for the footpath to be moved...That was a real farce as no one could agree the route we suggested until stalemate and the intervention of the Scottish Govt who threw the whole thing in the bin.....Only after 5 years

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fausto copy
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby fausto copy » 18 Oct 2018, 4:47pm

We've got a public footpath running through our garden.
We were aware of it when we bought the house and tried for 27 years to get it diverted, as we believe the Definitive Map had been drawn up wrongly (in comparison to the route description).
In the end lots of pressure from the Ramblers Association forced the council into opening it up and wouldn't consider a diversion.
We now get the regular dog walkers using it and the occasional Duke of Edinburgh group but thankfully the beech hedge we planted screens most from view.

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RickH
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby RickH » 19 Oct 2018, 12:24am

It does seem as though it must be easier to get paths diverted these days, judging by the number of paths we come across that now go round a property rather than straight through the garden. And they apoear to be done officially with the proper yellow (or, very occasionally, blue if a bridleway) arrows.

There's one footpath locally where we had difficulty using a path we'd used sporadically for many years - there was a tall gate locked/wedged shut from the other side. The latest OS map now shows the footpath taking a different route, skirting a property effectively round the alternative two sides of a rectangle & Google maps shows building work suggesting additional houses where there was previously only one house.

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mjr
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby mjr » 22 Oct 2018, 4:21pm

RickH wrote:And they apoear to be done officially with the proper yellow (or, very occasionally, blue if a bridleway) arrows.

Are these colours/meanings standardised? I'm sure I've seen green, purple and black arrows too. I'll try to remember to take some pictures of them, but here's a green and a purple one on streetview: https://mapstreetview.com/#vdf3s_8zss_3c.s_-8e43
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RickH
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby RickH » 22 Oct 2018, 6:57pm

mjr wrote:
RickH wrote:And they apoear to be done officially with the proper yellow (or, very occasionally, blue if a bridleway) arrows.

Are these colours/meanings standardised? I'm sure I've seen green, purple and black arrows too. I'll try to remember to take some pictures of them, but here's a green and a purple one on streetview: https://mapstreetview.com/#vdf3s_8zss_3c.s_-8e43

I thought the blue & yellow were fairly standard fixtures on stiles & gates (sometimes just on posts in the middle of fields), at least in this part of the world, apart from named routes which often have their own identifying badge. Where a path leaves a road there can be a whole variety of signs.

Nigel
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Re: Countryside opening hours

Postby Nigel » 22 Oct 2018, 7:00pm

cyclemad wrote:our family farmed in the Scottish Borders until 2010..Unbeknown to any of us we had a footpath which ran straight across what was our front garden but many years before had been an orchard...
The result was a legal challenge from them to remove the hedge and pear tree and re=open the long defunct footpath...

This was a very expensive period...luckily not for us as the pear tree was protected under Scottish law - A Jedart Pear - and they lost the case...but....we had to apply for the footpath to be moved...That was a real farce as no one could agree the route we suggested until stalemate and the intervention of the Scottish Govt who threw the whole thing in the bin.....Only after 5 years


Scottish rights of way legislation is very different to that in England and Wales, and has always been different. Until the fairly recent access rights legislation in Scotland (2003), it was arguably worse than England and Wales. Now its probably a lot better for access north of the border than south.