Gravel/adventure bike or MTB?

[Bmblbzzz]

Note the 'one by' chainset!

BTW does the Kona remind you of anything,imitation isn't a bad form of flattery I s'pose,but how does it ride

Lol!

Though tbf a number of bikes would look v similar esp in same colour.

Glad you're so happy with the Vaya(s).

[reohn2]

Anything other than 1X ,is for the weak.

Did I ever claim strength?
Anything less than 3x8 is for the stoopid n strong

[reohn2]

Though tbf a number of bikes would look v similar esp in same colour.

But would they ride the same?
That's the important bit.

Glad you're so happy with the Vaya(s).

Thanks

On the inside of the chainstay there's a decal Ride 'n Smile they always have that effect!

[hamster]

Anything other than 1X ,is for the weak.

I beg to differ. Anything other than singlespeed is for the weak.

1x anything else is a halfway house: not enough gears to be truly versatile, but too many to be uncomplicated.

[elPedro666]

Anything other than 1X ,is for the weak.

I beg to differ. Anything other than singlespeed is for the weak.

1x anything else is a halfway house: not enough gears to be truly versatile, but too many to be uncomplicated.

Howsabout 1x14 with belt drive? Everyone's a winner! [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

32/36 is low enough for most things - I can get my Latitude up Chapel Gate in the Peaks without a dab and I'm far from anything special. It's lower than the 28/28 granny gear we used to consider normal not so very long ago...

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly using hovercraft full of eels.

[Trail Beater]

Anything other than 1X ,is for the weak.

I beg to differ. Anything other than singlespeed is for the weak.

1x anything else is a halfway house: not enough gears to be truly versatile, but too many to be uncomplicated.

Howsabout 1x14 with belt drive? Everyone's a winner! [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

32/36 is low enough for most things - I can get my Latitude up Chapel Gate in the Peaks without a dab and I'm far from anything special. It's lower than the 28/28 granny gear we used to consider normal not so very long ago...

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly using hovercraft full of eels.

I could have done with that gear range in May,tackling a very steep 1 1/2 mile long hill at Loch Humphrey

[reohn2]

Is that low?
Lowest on the Vayas is 24x32(700x37 tyres)
On the mtb 22x36(29erx2.4inch tyres)
As low as a weak old man can go

[Milfred Cubicle]

I wanted a versatile bike for many of the reasons you mentioned. Have a look at the Genesis Vagabond. Classed as a 'Monster cross' bike, it has discs, relaxed geometry, full rack/mudguards eyelets, but takes 29er wheels. A touch heavy, but a brilliant bike.

[reohn2]

I wanted a versatile bike for many of the reasons you mentioned. Have a look at the Genesis Vagabond. Classed as a 'Monster cross' bike, it has discs, relaxed geometry, full rack/mudguards eyelets, but takes 29er wheels. A touch heavy, but a brilliant bike.

If I was looking for another bike that would be it,it looks like a very versatile machine.

[MikeDee]

Note the 'one by' chainset!

BTW does the Kona remind you of anything,imitation isn't a bad form of flattery I s'pose,but how does it ride

Not to offend, but both frames and forks are probably made by the same Chinese company.

[reohn2]

Not to offend, but both frames and forks are probably made by the same Chinese company

Oh! I've no doubt that's a distinct possibility,and I'm not offended in the slightest.

Good is good whoever makes it,and whoever copies it exactly has the same product,whatever name's on it.
But if you compare the Sutra's geometry across the size range compared to the Vaya-their methods of classifying sizes are different but match up toptube lengths for a better idea-and you'll see there's only slightly differences,though the Vaya's head tube for top tube length is much longer,which is significant for comfort IMV.
The ST angle on the Vaya is 1/2 a degree slacker.
The Sutra's HT angle is 1/2 a degree slacker @71 degrees across the range.
Whereas the Salsa's geometry differs incrementally as size increases.

I've no doubt the tubes are very similar,though don't know how similar.

FWIW my Baby Blue Vaya pictured above has a slightly bigger diameter TT than the earlier (Bronze) one,and I can feel it's sliigghhttllyy stiffer as a result, which seems to indicate Salsa's development isn't static.
I don't know anything about the Kona other than what I've read and chatting to a couple of owners I've come across on my travels,but it gets good reviews.

[Trail Beater]

Not to offend, but both frames and forks are probably made by the same Chinese company.

Same tubing,but made to different brands specifications of course .

[Bonefishblues]

Not to offend, but both frames and forks are probably made by the same Chinese company

Oh! I've no doubt that's a distinct possibility,and I'm not offended in the slightest.

Good is good whoever makes it,and whoever copies it exactly has the same product,whatever name's on it.
But if you compare the Sutra's geometry across the size range compared to the Vaya-their methods of classifying sizes are different but match up toptube lengths for a better idea-and you'll see there's only slightly differences,though the Vaya's head tube for top tube length is much longer,which is significant for comfort IMV.
The ST angle on the Vaya is 1/2 a degree slacker.
The Sutra's HT angle is 1/2 a degree slacker @71 degrees across the range.
Whereas the Salsa's geometry differs incrementally as size increases.

I've no doubt the tubes are very similar,though don't know how similar.

FWIW my Baby Blue Vaya pictured above has a slightly bigger diameter TT than the earlier (Bronze) one,and I can feel it's sliigghhttllyy stiffer as a result, which seems to indicate Salsa's development isn't static.
I don't know anything about the Kona other than what I've read and chatting to a couple of owners I've come across on my travels,but it gets good reviews.

Which Sutra, one wonders?

Seriously, interesting to flip thro' the iterations here (I have the original one): https://knowyourbike.com/kona/sutra

[reohn2]

Ah! many differing variation within the Sutra,things could be much Karma
The ride is everything.....

[Bonefishblues]

It's metamorphosed from what started off not a million miles away from the Ltd we've seen into a mainstream tourer, which in turn has spawned the Ltd. What goes around etc.