Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Trips, adventures, bikes, equipment, etc.
hamster
Posts: 4131
Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by hamster »

I think that there are several reasons:
1 Difficulty of fitting any kind of rack arrangement to full sussers
2 Similar with any bike with rear disc brakes
3 Fewer MTBs have rack lugs these days, especially at the higher end
4 Clearance on singletrack
5 Fashion
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6261
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

The answer is in the question: bikepacking is a way of carrying luggage directly on the bike's frame and other essential components such as handlebars.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by mjr »

Boring_Username wrote:
Heltor Chasca wrote:My observations at the last ride I went on, was that there were quite a few 'bikepacking' seat packs dotted about amongst the starters.


A fair point - a Carradice Barley saddlebag could be described as 'bikepacking'

I am slightly inclined to try combining a longflap-style saddlebag with a racktop bag for touring again (plus small handlebar bag). I couldn't quite make it work in the time available last year and threw the panniers on instead (with dry bags inside), but they do make the bike slightly more awkward to park (because of the extra width) and I feel attaching/detaching is faffier.

I'm not a fan of the long-tail seatpacks because they've wagged whenever I've tried them... and when handlebar bags get too big, the effect on steering annoys me.

Each to their own, though!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
3spd
Posts: 411
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 5:37pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by 3spd »

Bmblbzzz wrote:The answer is in the question: bikepacking is a way of carrying luggage directly on the bike's frame and other essential components such as handlebars.


That doesn't explain why extra width at the front is preferred to the rear.
My worse day on my bike is better than my best day at work!
User avatar
Heltor Chasca
Posts: 3016
Joined: 30 Aug 2014, 8:18pm
Location: Near Bath & The Mendips in Somerset

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by Heltor Chasca »

3spd wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:The answer is in the question: bikepacking is a way of carrying luggage directly on the bike's frame and other essential components such as handlebars.


That doesn't explain why extra width at the front is preferred to the rear.


Clearly your control group has malfunctioned. Nobody who has replied to your question prefers width at the front. I for one don't prefer width anywhere when off road.

You need to redirect your research in the direction of those who lash cages and kit to their front forks. Ask someone the next time you come across them. If you do at all.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by mjr »

It's easier to see the width in front of you and manoeuvre it through gaps? Surely I'm not the only one to snag a pannier on a bollard?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
3spd
Posts: 411
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 5:37pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by 3spd »

:lol: done that.
My worse day on my bike is better than my best day at work!
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Must admit tyre only cyclists I've seen with anything strapped to their forks were traditional 4 pannier tourists. Having walked and cycled in the lakes The only bikepackers I've seen have been the bar roll and seat pack setup only. Some have used bags attached to frame or even the Alpkit stem cell type of bottle carrier as well.

I think there have been some tourists with little bags on forks but my impression they're the fast and light grand tour types. Those doing great distance as quickly as possible. Perhaps that's wrong but it's what I've seen online.

I take it you are thinking of the trek bikepacking drop barred bikes that have attachment points and trek branded dry bags. Trek 720 i believe is designed with those bags on the forks. The trek 520 disc and 920disc, which are not part of the recall issue, are traditional front and rear rack type of touring bike.
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6261
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

3spd wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:The answer is in the question: bikepacking is a way of carrying luggage directly on the bike's frame and other essential components such as handlebars.


That doesn't explain why extra width at the front is preferred to the rear.

That's a slightly different question! I haven't seen bikepackers with anything bigger than a large drinks bottle on the forks (it might not be a bottle, but the size of a 1.5 litre bottle). That's not really any wider than the rider's feet.
pwa
Posts: 17370
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by pwa »

3spd wrote:When I used this set up I found when parking it wanted to tip over more compared to panniers.


As someone who has toured with 4 panniers and a bar bag, the set-up here looks to have too much weight high up. Panniers keep the weight much lower, and very secure if you have them right. That all helps handling. But the loading in this photo clearly keeps stuff out of harms way if you are riding close to low lying hazards. Horses for courses, I'd say.
amediasatex
Posts: 842
Joined: 2 Nov 2015, 12:51pm
Location: Sunny Devon! just East of the Moor

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by amediasatex »

Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?


I think by the sounds of it you've fallen into the trap of comparing bikepacking with traditional touring (on or off road)

Fundamentally they are different approaches to the same thing, it may be travelling from place A to place B, using a bike and carrying your gear, but where it differs from touring, even 'lightweight' touring is that the whole point in bikepacking is for the experience to still be about the mountain biking and to be as unhindered by the gear as possible, otherwise it is just touring using offroad routes <- I hope the distinction is clear, because although I know what I mean in my head I'm not sure if I've explained! *

Bikepacking in it's modern form is very much about riding the same trails as you would on an normal unladen bike, the same technicality and terrain, just for longer periods, and that requires a different approach to luggage. You need everything to be as light as possible, to affect weight distribution as little as possible, and not place any restrictions on where you can ride in terms of clearances, and also allow normal operation of suspension when it's fitted.

This is why most of the bags are both central and in-line, or tucked up under the bar, minimal impact on width and as much as possible keeping the weight central and near the rider, although bar bags and seatpacks look big they are often packed with the light but bulky items.

So to answer your later specific question about fork mounted cages, taking all the above into account, you need to realise that strapping things to the fork for bikepackers is still not really desirable, but it is an option when all other capacity has been maxed out, at which point they get deployed either for bulky but light items, or to carry additional water. Remember it's not ideal, but keeping in mind the light weight**, and distribution/clearance aspects it's normally the better compromise over resorting to racks and panniers.

Basically it's not about saying no to panniers, it's about the entire approach being different from the beginning and panniers simply being the wrong tool for that job! Bikepackers will put up with a bit of extra weight or bulk only if it's a necessary compromise or provides some other big benefit, but panniers mostly provide little benefit with many downsides for that type of riding.

As people have mentioned though, luggage is personal, you use what works for you, and in those particular scenarios, the next ride may be different in a different place and with different requirements ;-)


* So, if you get up in the morning and say, "I want to get from place A to place B over X days carrying my own gear, that'll require travelling offroad", that's different to getting up and saying "I want to ride my mountain bike on this trail between A and B, that'll require carrying some gear". Make any sense?

** this is often the major issue, being that even the lightest set of panniers (+ rack) is going to be substantially heaver than 'soft' baggage, and also affect weight distribution which is much more important offroad, and that's before you even get into issues with racks and suspension...

As an example, my Ortlieb backroller panniers, which see a lot of day-to-day use are ~1.5kg a pair + ~500g for a rack and fittings leaves me with bare luggage system that weighs 2kg, and then would concentrate all of that weight in one (bad) place for offroad riding.

My bikepacking seatpack is <300g, a front drybag adds another 200g, and on longer trips I might use another 200g drybag, so 500-700g, a whopping 1.3kg+ saving, that's pretty much the difference between me taking a tent and not! And I also get to distribute the weight better.

This gets even more extreme when looking at trips longer than 2-3 days where you might need to carry more gear, the differences all add up and although they might seem small in the end it makes a big difference.
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6261
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

That's quite an interesting and I think quite clear explanation of bikepacking, at least in its origins. Certainly bikepacking gear has spread beyond its origins though. For instance:
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/bikes-2 ... heel-race/
Image

I'm not sure whether the Indi-Pac can be considered bikepacking, but there are plenty of people using similar ways of carrying luggage on a bike in less extreme on-road situations. I haven't been able to really make it work for me, but it's great to have the additional options beyond the traditional panniers and saddlebags.
User avatar
Heltor Chasca
Posts: 3016
Joined: 30 Aug 2014, 8:18pm
Location: Near Bath & The Mendips in Somerset

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by Heltor Chasca »

Bmblbzzz wrote:That's quite an interesting and I think quite clear explanation of bikepacking, at least in its origins. Certainly bikepacking gear has spread beyond its origins though. For instance:
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/bikes-2 ... heel-race/
Image

I'm not sure whether the Indi-Pac can be considered bikepacking, but there are plenty of people using similar ways of carrying luggage on a bike in less extreme on-road situations. I haven't been able to really make it work for me, but it's great to have the additional options beyond the traditional panniers and saddlebags.


I think that's just it....'great to have additional options beyond the traditional panniers and saddlebags.'

I'm enjoying this whole Indi-Pac event. Think I'll try PBP first. And before that I've got to clock up some longer stuff. One can dream.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11010
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by Bonefishblues »

That's an interesting link thanks. I like the underslung top tube bags several are using.
Warin61
Posts: 192
Joined: 16 Nov 2016, 8:51pm

Re: Why are Bikepackers shunning Rear Panniers ?

Post by Warin61 »

amediasatex wrote:So to answer your later specific question about fork mounted cages, taking all the above into account, you need to realise that strapping things to the fork for bikepackers is still not really desirable, but it is an option when all other capacity has been maxed out, at which point they get deployed either for bulky but light items, or to carry additional water.


Water is not light.

I use water density (weight vs volume) to decide how low something should be packed ... if it sinks in water it goes low!
What should go on the fork are anything cages with clothing/sleeping bag/tent etc.

Unfortunately bikepacking does not work for me ...
An 8 day trip ... means 10 days of food at 1kg per day + 3.8 litres of water (I expect to get water during the day... but no food).
+ camping gear, cooking gear, + a little clothing, camera, PLB, GPS, maps, towel, soap, first aid kit ...
:( there is just too much of it.

Note: I have 5 cages... 3 in the normal places ..and two extras on the down tube to either side of the standard down tube cage .. they are clamped on with jubilee clips (hose clamps). My knees clear them nicely.
Post Reply