Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

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Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby Username » 19 Jul 2017, 10:42pm

Been reading other threads and for £700, apparently full sus is not the way to go. I would consider £700 a lot of money, especially if you consider the minimum wage (which is like a plague in this country) is like £7.50PH or less.

1: Why are full suspension bikes so bad at this price point?

2: What is the minimum you would expect to pay for a decent full susser?

Based on buying new.

Years ago I had a Saracen Ariel for about £750. It was a full suspension bike and I found it pretty good. Dont know if prices for quality bikes have gone up that much in the last decade.

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby hjd10 » 20 Jul 2017, 12:59am

The lower the price the lower the spec of the bike and Cheap FS mountain bikes are heavy. I'd go for this bike if you have to go for the lowest price possible but still want to maintain a good specification. There is a newer model out now however that is about a Grand.

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-bos ... ke-p347143

Also what sort of FS mountain bike are you talking about as there are many different options available such as: Trail, Cross-Country, All-Mountain, Downhill.

If the cost really is an issue then buy the most expensive hardtail that you can afford, it will be nice and light and more than adequate for most use. :wink:

My next bike purcahse is going to be this bike although I'm waiting to see if a discount comes up over the next few months.

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/m ... nsion-27-5

Regards,

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100%JR
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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby 100%JR » 23 Jul 2017, 8:25pm

A "Top end" FS can cost owt from £5k-£9k.
My last FS build cost £4.5k in 2013.
The last off-the-peg FS I bought was £2.5k in 2008 and that was mid range.
My first "proper" FS cost £1200 in 2001.
Personally,for what I'd want it for,I would consider £1800-2000 a starting point but would probably double that once I'd finished buying/building.
Generally these days £1600 is considered "entry level" £750 is only just above entry level for a HT!
My HT cost £1200 to build in 2010 and the rebuild was a further £1200 in 2015.
That Calibre Bossnut does get decent reviews but it depends what you want it for?

£700 wasn't a lot of money for a MTB 20 years ago and today about the price of a good set of wheels!
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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby Username » 24 Jul 2017, 8:21am

I currently own a specialised Stumpjumper, purchased last year new for £1700ish. I find it fantastic to ride. But then I dont do jumps or really technical stuff. Feels almost as light as my Scott road bike too! There is definitely a massive difference between my new MTB and my old one. Perhaps if I rode an £8k MTB it would make a similar improvement on my Stumpjumper. Who knows.

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby pjclinch » 27 Jul 2017, 11:49am

Username wrote:Been reading other threads and for £700, apparently full sus is not the way to go. I would consider £700 a lot of money, especially if you consider the minimum wage (which is like a plague in this country) is like £7.50PH or less.

1: Why are full suspension bikes so bad at this price point?


The money spent on a more elaborate frame and the shocker take money away from something else, which is arguably a better place to spend it. So a better suspension fork, better drivetrain or better frame may be more cost effective ways to get a good machine. The trick to optimum value below the very best is a balanced set of bits and if you require the extras for full sus other more important things have to take a quality dip.

Username wrote:
2: What is the minimum you would expect to pay for a decent full susser?

Based on buying new.


No idea, but a pal just got a tasty second hand one for that sort of money.

Username wrote:Years ago I had a Saracen Ariel for about £750. It was a full suspension bike and I found it pretty good. Dont know if prices for quality bikes have gone up that much in the last decade.


The thing is did you compare it to a hardtail at the same price? And it's also a matter of what you want out of it: the pal who just went full sus went down that road not because his hardtail was letting him down, but with advancing age he wanted something a bit more forgiving. There's nothing wrong with wanting a gentler ride, and most of "you're better off with a hardtail at that price" assumes you're wanting best outright sports performance.

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby Username » 29 Jul 2017, 3:45pm

pjclinch wrote:
Username wrote:Been reading other threads and for £700, apparently full sus is not the way to go. I would consider £700 a lot of money, especially if you consider the minimum wage (which is like a plague in this country) is like £7.50PH or less.

1: Why are full suspension bikes so bad at this price point?


The money spent on a more elaborate frame and the shocker take money away from something else, which is arguably a better place to spend it. So a better suspension fork, better drivetrain or better frame may be more cost effective ways to get a good machine. The trick to optimum value below the very best is a balanced set of bits and if you require the extras for full sus other more important things have to take a quality dip.

Username wrote:
2: What is the minimum you would expect to pay for a decent full susser?

Based on buying new.


No idea, but a pal just got a tasty second hand one for that sort of money.

Username wrote:Years ago I had a Saracen Ariel for about £750. It was a full suspension bike and I found it pretty good. Dont know if prices for quality bikes have gone up that much in the last decade.


The thing is did you compare it to a hardtail at the same price? And it's also a matter of what you want out of it: the pal who just went full sus went down that road not because his hardtail was letting him down, but with advancing age he wanted something a bit more forgiving. There's nothing wrong with wanting a gentler ride, and most of "you're better off with a hardtail at that price" assumes you're wanting best outright sports performance.

Pete.


Never tried a hardtail in all my life. The reason being is I already have fully rigid bikes. I have a carbon road bike, and an aluminium commuter with thicker tyres to allow light off roading. For my MTB I might as well go all out and get full sus.

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby pjclinch » 29 Jul 2017, 7:47pm

Username wrote:
Never tried a hardtail in all my life. The reason being is I already have fully rigid bikes. I have a carbon road bike, and an aluminium commuter with thicker tyres to allow light off roading. For my MTB I might as well go all out and get full sus.


Well that all depends on what you want out of your MTB. Check out top end XC races and some of the field are on hardtails, some on full-sus, so it isn't a no-brainer even if money is not much of an issue. Even where all else is equal (and at a flat £750 all else won't be) it isn't a universal truism that full-sus is better, because it's heavier and especially at relatively cheaper models your frame will have more play: less is more in those areas. A hardtail just uses your knees for the rear suspension, while the fork will take the sting out of big hits at the front.

If what you want is a softer ride or covering rougher stuff at speed full sus makes a lot of sense. But what it won't necessarily give you is an objectively better general purpose MTB. While on the one hand you might as well go all out and get full sus, on the other you could equally go all out and get a better fork, frame and transmission at the same price which might work better for your MTB. Or might not, but the devil really is in the detail.

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby 100%JR » 29 Jul 2017, 9:06pm

Username wrote:Never tried a hardtail in all my life. The reason being is I already have fully rigid bikes. I have a carbon road bike, and an aluminium commuter with thicker tyres to allow light off roading. For my MTB I might as well go all out and get full sus.

What??
That is a ridiculous way to decide on whether or not you need a FS!A HT is totally different to a full rigid....totally different :roll:
For 90% of UK MTBing(and I've been MTBing 30+ years) a FS is overkill.The modern 160mm travel FS are WAY overkill.If you have a medical problem that means a FS is beneficial then yes get one but if you're getting one because of the above statement then you're wasting money :roll:
Ask yourself this:-
1.Will I be riding up and down Mountains
2.Will I be riding steep,technical,rocky descents
3.Will I be riding steep,technical,rocky climbs
4.Will I be riding cross-country trails that involve a bit of "rough stuff"

If you answered no to questions 1-3 then you're wasting your money on a FS.
If you answered yes to questions 1-3 then you need to be looking at £2-3K minimum for a decent FS.
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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby Username » 29 Jul 2017, 11:16pm

ibbo68 wrote:
Username wrote:Never tried a hardtail in all my life. The reason being is I already have fully rigid bikes. I have a carbon road bike, and an aluminium commuter with thicker tyres to allow light off roading. For my MTB I might as well go all out and get full sus.

What??
That is a ridiculous way to decide on whether or not you need a FS!A HT is totally different to a full rigid....totally different :roll:
For 90% of UK MTBing(and I've been MTBing 30+ years) a FS is overkill.The modern 160mm travel FS are WAY overkill.If you have a medical problem that means a FS is beneficial then yes get one but if you're getting one because of the above statement then you're wasting money :roll:
Ask yourself this:-
1.Will I be riding up and down Mountains
2.Will I be riding steep,technical,rocky descents
3.Will I be riding steep,technical,rocky climbs
4.Will I be riding cross-country trails that involve a bit of "rough stuff"

If you answered no to questions 1-3 then you're wasting your money on a FS.
If you answered yes to questions 1-3 then you need to be looking at £2-3K minimum for a decent FS.


Your answer irritated me a bit. Pretend I replied something really offensive.

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby 100%JR » 30 Jul 2017, 2:54pm

Username wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:
Username wrote:Never tried a hardtail in all my life. The reason being is I already have fully rigid bikes. I have a carbon road bike, and an aluminium commuter with thicker tyres to allow light off roading. For my MTB I might as well go all out and get full sus.

Your answer irritated me a bit. Pretend I replied something really offensive.


Your statement highlighted irritated me a bit too.A HT is not a Full Rigid it has a Suspension Fork...hense the name hard-tail :roll:
I can't pretend you said something really offensive as I don't find anything offensive :wink:
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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby ratherbeintobago » 1 Aug 2017, 7:14pm

ibbo68 wrote:For 90% of UK MTBing(and I've been MTBing 30+ years) a FS is overkill.The modern 160mm travel FS are WAY overkill.If you have a medical problem that means a FS is beneficial then yes get one but if you're getting one because of the above statement then you're wasting money :roll:


This. And put simply a lot of FS bikes aren't designed with British clag in mind (in California you don't ride on the rare day it rains) and mud eats bearings.

'Hardcore' hardtail the way forward.

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby hjd10 » 1 Aug 2017, 9:02pm

ratherbeintobago wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:For 90% of UK MTBing(and I've been MTBing 30+ years) a FS is overkill.The modern 160mm travel FS are WAY overkill.If you have a medical problem that means a FS is beneficial then yes get one but if you're getting one because of the above statement then you're wasting money :roll:


This. And put simply a lot of FS bikes aren't designed with British clag in mind (in California you don't ride on the rare day it rains) and mud eats bearings.

'Hardcore' hardtail the way forward.


I miss the winter weather from Nevada for those reasons, I could go for many rides out with only a quick dust off and dry chain lube.

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby hjd10 » 1 Aug 2017, 9:05pm

ibbo68 wrote:
Username wrote:Never tried a hardtail in all my life. The reason being is I already have fully rigid bikes. I have a carbon road bike, and an aluminium commuter with thicker tyres to allow light off roading. For my MTB I might as well go all out and get full sus.

What??
That is a ridiculous way to decide on whether or not you need a FS!A HT is totally different to a full rigid....totally different :roll:
For 90% of UK MTBing(and I've been MTBing 30+ years) a FS is overkill.The modern 160mm travel FS are WAY overkill.If you have a medical problem that means a FS is beneficial then yes get one but if you're getting one because of the above statement then you're wasting money :roll:
Ask yourself this:-
1.Will I be riding up and down Mountains
2.Will I be riding steep,technical,rocky descents
3.Will I be riding steep,technical,rocky climbs
4.Will I be riding cross-country trails that involve a bit of "rough stuff"

If you answered no to questions 1-3 then you're wasting your money on a FS.
If you answered yes to questions 1-3 then you need to be looking at £2-3K minimum for a decent FS.


Fingers crossed I'll be picking up one of those £2-£3k spec bikes for £1.1k tomorrow.... :D

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby ratherbeintobago » 1 Aug 2017, 9:07pm

hjd10 wrote:
ratherbeintobago wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:For 90% of UK MTBing(and I've been MTBing 30+ years) a FS is overkill.The modern 160mm travel FS are WAY overkill.If you have a medical problem that means a FS is beneficial then yes get one but if you're getting one because of the above statement then you're wasting money :roll:


This. And put simply a lot of FS bikes aren't designed with British clag in mind (in California you don't ride on the rare day it rains) and mud eats bearings.

'Hardcore' hardtail the way forward.


I miss the winter weather from Nevada for those reasons, I could go for many rides out with only a quick dust off and dry chain lube.


Whereas in the Pennines I can go for many rides out with full goretex waterproofs and winter boots, in July, and come home looking like the abominable mud man.

Does anyone else remember the Mint Sauce strip about jumping £10 notes into the mud?

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Re: Minimum price you would recommend spending on a full sus

Postby Gattonero » 8 Aug 2017, 6:01pm

Username wrote:...
Never tried a hardtail in all my life. The reason being is I already have fully rigid bikes. I have a carbon road bike, and an aluminium commuter with thicker tyres to allow light off roading. For my MTB I might as well go all out and get full sus.


Uh?
Oh man, you really need to go trough the path and start with a hardtail. That's the way to learn the best, then you can refine with a FS.
You can do a lot with a good hardtail, 2.5" tyres and dropper post; as opposed to a FS of the same price, which will be obviously cheaper in many regards.

You can find a respectable Canyon, with Slx/Xt and Fox forks and DT Swiss wheels, for about £1.4k which is a very good price.
Unfortunately, with Mtb there's no shortcuts, you need a minimum of quality to get performance: forks wheels and tyres can be a serious bottleneck when the things get real.
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/grand- ... x-9-9.html
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