Countryside opening hours

Trips, adventures, bikes, equipment, etc.
User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10801
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by Cunobelin »

Cyril Haearn wrote:"may" or "can"? :wink:


Either ....

The use of may be was intended as "I have no clue as to which areas are or are not permissible, so there "may be" some areas that can be restricted
User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10801
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by Cunobelin »

We had an interesting one with Bath Lane Recreation Ground in Fareham

It is a cycle;e route that avoids a fast 4 lane road between the A27 and A32

However the Council then put up "NO cycling signs on a sign adjacent the ones indicating the cycle route.

Took about 3 months to get "No Golfing taped across the top of the "No Cycling" part

However it took a further year to get the Cricket Club to understand that the Cycle Track was NOT an area to place their spectator seats, scoring tables and the massive great Scoring board

It was not uncommon to have thirty people standing, sitting in chairs or loungers.
Labrat
Posts: 245
Joined: 3 Mar 2014, 11:58am

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by Labrat »

Categorically - the signs cannot limit times of access to the rights of way.

Theres a strong argument that the signs may constitute an offence under S57 NP Act https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/12-13-14/97/section/57

The mention of Amey sounds odd - I suspect someone has passed you on to Highways dept (roads) rather than the rights of way department
Redrhino
Posts: 32
Joined: 19 Aug 2018, 8:48pm

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by Redrhino »

Thanks for all the comments. I have a response from the Gloucestershire Public Rights of Way (PROW) officer.

He writes that the Bathurst Estate acknowledge that they cannot restrict use of PROW but ”They are trying to establish a measure of control over the permissive paths and bridleways on the estate without wishing to curtail use of those recorded on the Definitive Map”.

I can see the distinction: private land owners can choose to permit access to their land on their terms, whilst public rights of way are inviolate.
It’s a shame such a misleading sign is allowed to be kept in place. I am told by the officer that it has been there for 10 years.
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by PH »

I'm still unclear if that sign is on a PROW or a permissive bridleway, if it's on the former then is shouldn't be signed as if it were the latter and I wouldn't accept the response you've received.
Redrhino
Posts: 32
Joined: 19 Aug 2018, 8:48pm

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by Redrhino »

The sign is on a normal public access bridleway. Once in the woods there are informal tracks all over the place - I can imagine that these are permissive.

I see your point. If the land owner and the PROW officer agree that the sign is wrong, why are they still there?
sloyd
Posts: 22
Joined: 25 Oct 2016, 12:35pm

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by sloyd »

Next time you’re passing at dusk, remember to have your crow bar with you. Into the hedge with that nonsense.
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by pwa »

Arguably, a sign that misleads the public into thinking their rights don't exist constitutes an obstruction.

My Missus had a heated discussion with a young bloke on a tractor while she was walking across a field to get access to the sea cliffs near our home. He told her she was trespassing, so she told him she was on a public footpath. He wasn't expecting her to know that (it isn't marked) and he retreated when she showed her knowledge. We have used that path many times since.
User avatar
fausto copy
Posts: 2809
Joined: 14 Dec 2008, 6:51pm
Location: Pembrokeshire

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by fausto copy »

We've stayed at Cirencester Park caravan site a few times and have walked through the estate into and out of town.
On our last trip we were running late and there was an estate worker closing the gate at 5pm.
Seeing we were loaded down with shopping, he let us through.

I admit I'd never bothered looking at the status of the path through the estate as it's easy enough to cycle from the caravan park on designated cycle paths. However (and I've not checked) if it is a bridlepath, why does it say horse-riding is allowed, but cycling not. :?
User avatar
cyclemad
Posts: 186
Joined: 23 Jan 2018, 9:16pm

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by cyclemad »

our family farmed in the Scottish Borders until 2010..Unbeknown to any of us we had a footpath which ran straight across what was our front garden but many years before had been an orchard....Until one day in summer when a group of woolly socked ramblers arrived demanding to cross our garden using '' the footpath''. They had a map with them which had a date win the mid 1800's and they were from a local ''ramblers rights '' group so I told them we had no idea we had a footpath but to go ahead and find it..Off they duly trotted through the mass of the local Young farmers club bbq we were hosting until they came up against a very old hawthorn hedge and an even larger pear tree....Thats when the shouting started...''we know our rights etc ...you are obstructing a free passage etc etc ''' - Police arrived --- can you picture it ???? Just like a fracking protest !!!!!

The result was a legal challenge from them to remove the hedge and pear tree and re=open the long defunct footpath...

This was a very expensive period...luckily not for us as the pear tree was protected under Scottish law - A Jedart Pear - and they lost the case...but....we had to apply for the footpath to be moved...That was a real farce as no one could agree the route we suggested until stalemate and the intervention of the Scottish Govt who threw the whole thing in the bin.....Only after 5 years
User avatar
fausto copy
Posts: 2809
Joined: 14 Dec 2008, 6:51pm
Location: Pembrokeshire

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by fausto copy »

We've got a public footpath running through our garden.
We were aware of it when we bought the house and tried for 27 years to get it diverted, as we believe the Definitive Map had been drawn up wrongly (in comparison to the route description).
In the end lots of pressure from the Ramblers Association forced the council into opening it up and wouldn't consider a diversion.
We now get the regular dog walkers using it and the occasional Duke of Edinburgh group but thankfully the beech hedge we planted screens most from view.
User avatar
RickH
Posts: 5832
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by RickH »

It does seem as though it must be easier to get paths diverted these days, judging by the number of paths we come across that now go round a property rather than straight through the garden. And they apoear to be done officially with the proper yellow (or, very occasionally, blue if a bridleway) arrows.

There's one footpath locally where we had difficulty using a path we'd used sporadically for many years - there was a tall gate locked/wedged shut from the other side. The latest OS map now shows the footpath taking a different route, skirting a property effectively round the alternative two sides of a rectangle & Google maps shows building work suggesting additional houses where there was previously only one house.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by mjr »

RickH wrote:And they apoear to be done officially with the proper yellow (or, very occasionally, blue if a bridleway) arrows.

Are these colours/meanings standardised? I'm sure I've seen green, purple and black arrows too. I'll try to remember to take some pictures of them, but here's a green and a purple one on streetview: https://mapstreetview.com/#vdf3s_8zss_3c.s_-8e43
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
RickH
Posts: 5832
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by RickH »

mjr wrote:
RickH wrote:And they apoear to be done officially with the proper yellow (or, very occasionally, blue if a bridleway) arrows.

Are these colours/meanings standardised? I'm sure I've seen green, purple and black arrows too. I'll try to remember to take some pictures of them, but here's a green and a purple one on streetview: https://mapstreetview.com/#vdf3s_8zss_3c.s_-8e43

I thought the blue & yellow were fairly standard fixtures on stiles & gates (sometimes just on posts in the middle of fields), at least in this part of the world, apart from named routes which often have their own identifying badge. Where a path leaves a road there can be a whole variety of signs.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
Nigel
Posts: 463
Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 6:29pm

Re: Countryside opening hours

Post by Nigel »

cyclemad wrote:our family farmed in the Scottish Borders until 2010..Unbeknown to any of us we had a footpath which ran straight across what was our front garden but many years before had been an orchard...
The result was a legal challenge from them to remove the hedge and pear tree and re=open the long defunct footpath...

This was a very expensive period...luckily not for us as the pear tree was protected under Scottish law - A Jedart Pear - and they lost the case...but....we had to apply for the footpath to be moved...That was a real farce as no one could agree the route we suggested until stalemate and the intervention of the Scottish Govt who threw the whole thing in the bin.....Only after 5 years


Scottish rights of way legislation is very different to that in England and Wales, and has always been different. Until the fairly recent access rights legislation in Scotland (2003), it was arguably worse than England and Wales. Now its probably a lot better for access north of the border than south.
Post Reply