Dawes Karakum OK for Gentle off-road

[Devonpedals]

Hi, New here

We both have road bikes by want to go across the Moors and such, nothing too severe, we’re in our 60s so like a reasonably easy time but want to go off-road.
If we change our tyres for some that can be used for off-road and on-road would that be better than buying additional bikes for off-road.

I realise it’s horses for courses and all that but Hope here’s a way around having four bikes.

If there is no way around does anyone have recommendations for decent Mountain Bikes - I’ve been looking at Specialized & Muddy Fox and Claud Butler, the Dawes offshoot.

I’d be pleased to hear any recommendations and thoughts

[Jdsk]

I'd swap the tyres, and I'd consider having two pairs of wheels if the test runs went well.

What have you got on them at the moment... size and type?

Jonathan

[531colin]

You will be fine on reasonable tracks. I would say try the existing tyres as long as they are at least 35 or 40mm wide and have a bit of tread.
See some of the places I get to on tyres like that https://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/albums/with/72157636368686176....and I'm in my seventies.
Karakum is the butterfly bar job?

[Devonpedals]

I'd swap the tyres, and I'd consider having two pairs of wheels if the test runs went well.

What have you got on them at the moment... size and type?

Jonathan

TY for answering

My wife’s tyres are Bontrager L2 700 X 38mm

Dawes is Schwalbe 700 X 38C

Why two pairs of wheels please ?

[Devonpedals]

You will be fine on reasonable tracks. I would say try the existing tyres as long as they are at least 35 or 40mm wide and have a bit of tread.
See some of the places I get to on tyres like that https://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/albums/with/72157636368686176....and I'm in my seventies.
Karakum is the butterfly bar job?

Yes, the butterfly bar - needed due to neck problem due to RTA in the 80s

Your rough terrain is what we had in mind!

Not sure about the Alfred Way we thought about doing in small sections - lots of flint along there!

[Jdsk]

My wife’s tyres are Bontrager L2 700 X 38mm
Dawes is Schwalbe 700 X 38C

Which model of Schwalbe?

Why two pairs of wheels please ?

I hope that you'll be able to find a tyre that does everything you want. But if you can't then you have a choice between swapping tyres as appropriate or swapping wheels. In that situation some prefer the latter.

Swapping wheels might also offer the chance to swap gearing, but I suspect that the Karakums already have a large enough range.

Jonathan

PS: We have a couple of Galaxies that have to do everything: into town, touring with camping gear, child transport, mostly on road but some gravel and some mud and some forest trails. The Schwalbe Marathon Plusses manage all of that.

[slowster]

Just try your bikes as they are on some tracks which are local to you and from which you can divert onto easier roads if you find the going too much for you or for your bikes. Increase the difficulty of your rides in terms of terrain and length gradually. You will soon develop your own opinions about what does and does not work for you, both in regards to the bikes and also what off road riding you like/dislike.

Since your bikes are touring bikes, they are quite suitable at least as a starting point. If in the course of doing more off road riding you conclude that components on them need to be changed or the bikes themselves are not sufficiently up to the task, you will have a better idea based on your own experience and preferences of what changes to make or what replacement bikes to get.

38mm tyres should be fine to start trying such rides. If you find yourselves seeking out and enjoying rougher terrain, it might get to the point that you feel you want or need wider tyres. The limiting factor is likely to be the clearance at the chainstays and to the sides of the fork blades. Ideally there should be something like 5mm clearance either side, which you can easily check by seeing if you can slide a 5mm or more allen key in the gaps. Similarly there should ideally be 10mm clearance between the top of the tyre and mudguard (to reduce the risk of mud picked up by the tyre jamming the wheel), and it's underneath the fork crown where the gap is likely to be an issue.

It might or might not be that you have sufficient clearance to fit wider tyres. Note that Schwalbe's tyres can often have a smaller actual width than their nominal size, so it's a good idea to measure the width of your existing tyres to determine how much clearance there might be for a wider tyre, before choosing and buying new tyres. If you fit tyres that are significantly wider, you will probably find that you also need to fit wider mudguards as well.

The other major consideration is likely to be whether the gears are low enough for you for the terrain. I think your Karakum's probably already have quite low gears, and hopefully they will be low enough for you. If however you decide you want even lower, then come back and post a new thread (or update this one) with details of your transmission, so that people can advise. For example, you might be able to replace an 11-32 cassette with 12-36 or replace a 26 tooth inner chainring with 24 or 22, but not all derailleurs might be able to accommodate those changes (that said, many often find they can successfully use bigger cassettes contrary to Shimano's specifications).

Lastly, you might find that the Karakum's upright riding position is something which you like on the road, but which is less good off-road. An upright riding position will mean less weight on the handlebars and lighter steering. You might therefore find when riding rougher tracks that you would prefer to have a slightly more leaned forward position which puts more weight on the front. If so, you should be able to achieve that by fitting a longer stem.

In conclusion, it's possible you might need to make few, if any, changes to your bikes to ride more off road tracks. However, if you find yourself enjoying and doing a lot of such rides, you might find you need or want to make some or all of the above changes.

Ultimately, you might decide that you need or want new bikes which are designed specifically for such riding (as well as being suitable for general touring and road riding). However, the longer you delay buying new bikes and the more you persevere with using your current bikes, the better idea you are likely to have of what you need in a new bike. You might even decide that the best solution for you would be to buy a couple of MTBs for the off road riding you want to do, and keep the Karakums as they are for road riding.

[Tangled Metal]

I've ridden 700x32mm Vittoria hypers (fairly slick tyres) off road before now. I thoroughly enjoyed it but at one point I was wheelspinning like mad in a patch of mud desperate not to put my foot down. Suddenly my wheel dug too below the mud and gripped the harder stuff and I shot forward. It was great fun controlling the back and the front wheel slides due to lack of grip.


Now I ride marathon plus tyres 700x37mm when mountain biking on my road bike. Something similar width will be ok on modest trails. Two sets of wheels is something for the future. For now get practising your tyre changes between nobbly off road and more on road tyres. Always good to be able to change tyres quickly and easily through practise.

[Devonpedals]

My wife’s tyres are Bontrager L2 700 X 38mm
Dawes is Schwalbe 700 X 38C

Which model of Schwalbe?

Schwalbe Silento?

Why two pairs of wheels please ?

I hope that you'll be able to find a tyre that does everything you want. But if you can't then you have a choice between swapping tyres as appropriate or swapping wheels. In that situation some prefer the latter.

Swapping wheels might also offer the chance to swap gearing, but I suspect that the Karakums already have a large enough range.

Jonathan

PS: We have a couple of Galaxies that have to do everything: into town, touring with camping gear, child transport, mostly on road but some gravel and some mud and some forest trails. The Schwalbe Marathon Plusses manage all of that.

Swapping wheels would be a major pain for us! But thanks for the advice

Think if we have problems with the tyres already in use, we’ll get the Marathons and take a look

Thanks for he info

[Jdsk]

NB There are multiple types of Marathon!
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=marathon

Jonathan

[Devonpedals]

I've ridden 700x32mm Vittoria hypers (fairly slick tyres) off road before now. I thoroughly enjoyed it but at one point I was wheelspinning like mad in a patch of mud desperate not to put my foot down. Suddenly my wheel dug too below the mud and gripped the harder stuff and I shot forward. It was great fun controlling the back and the front wheel slides due to lack of grip.


Now I ride marathon plus tyres 700x37mm when mountain biking on my road bike. Something similar width will be ok on modest trails. Two sets of wheels is something for the future. For now get practising your tyre changes between nobbly off road and more on road tyres. Always good to be able to change tyres quickly and easily through practise.

Thanks for the reply

Are the nobbly ones OK on the road, we don’t mind a little more effort as opposed to changing wheels or tyres - Mutterings from my wife but also me really. TY

[Devonpedals]

NB There are multiple types of Marathon!
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=marathon

Jonathan

Thought there might be!

[Devonpedals]

Thanks very much to all for your helpful comments

[Tangled Metal]

I've ridden 700x32mm Vittoria hypers (fairly slick tyres) off road before now. I thoroughly enjoyed it but at one point I was wheelspinning like mad in a patch of mud desperate not to put my foot down. Suddenly my wheel dug too below the mud and gripped the harder stuff and I shot forward. It was great fun controlling the back and the front wheel slides due to lack of grip.


Now I ride marathon plus tyres 700x37mm when mountain biking on my road bike. Something similar width will be ok on modest trails. Two sets of wheels is something for the future. For now get practising your tyre changes between nobbly off road and more on road tyres. Always good to be able to change tyres quickly and easily through practise.

Thanks for the reply

Are the nobbly ones OK on the road, we don’t mind a little more effort as opposed to changing wheels or tyres - Mutterings from my wife but also me really. TY

You can get all kinds of nobbly tyres. My hybrid had specialised own brand tyres on, a crosstrail model with front suspension. They had grooves running around the circumference in the centre then more nobbly as you go around the tyre. It ran on on tarmac ok and not noisy or slow like full on mountain bike tyres. Off road it handled okay too. Trigger sport tyres I think they're called.

[Nickeveson]

I used a Dawes Karakum for my ride on the Wimps Lejog....and it coped well with all surfaces that we rode on. Schwalbe Silento tyres were my choice