pete75 wrote:Whether or not a bike is too heavy to lift or carry depends on the rider not the bike. I've seen my son lift the TX400 compete with full camping load over a 5 bar gate without any apparent effort.
I qualified my statement from the start:
slowster wrote:I think for me off road bikes fall into two categories: light enough for me to lift over a gate or fence or shoulder carry across some obstacles vs those that are too heavy for that. If a bike is too heavy to lift over an obstacle, that will inevitably influence the choice of route and terrain.
In contrast you made a fairly sweeping assertion with the implication that it was true for the great majority of riders:
pete75 wrote:Bmblbzzz wrote:Comparing those RSF photos with the TdF one above, there's a huge difference in terrain.
Yes there's a difference between rough stuff touring and top level road racing. Before gravel bikes per se were invented.My point is you don't need them to go on the sort of unmade roads cycle tourists might use. An ordinary touring bike is quite sufficient. A European style trekking bike will also serve the same purpose. My son has a VSF TX400 Rohloff. I'd back that against most gravel bikes on the rough stuff.
And now we've moved on to:
pete75 wrote:Whether or not a bike is too heavy to lift or carry depends on the rider not the bike.
What a disingenuous argument. Clearly it depends upon both the rider and the bike: how much the rider can comfortably lift and whether a particular bike falls within that weight limit.
pete75 wrote:I've seen my son lift the TX400 compete with full camping load over a 5 bar gate without any apparent effort.
Bully for him. Now take a look at the wide range of people in the RSF archive photographs, many of them much older than your son, and, I imagine, many of them nowhere near as strong as he is. Arguing that people would be better off with a heavy European trekking bike instead of a lightweight gravel bike for rough stuff riding, simply because your fit young son finds them OK, is absurd.
The lighter a bike, the more people who will be able lift it (and the easier it will be to ride uphill and to walk and push up a slope). If a light gravel bike allows the many people who are not as strong as your son to be able still to ride adventurous off-road routes, I think that is more than good enough reason to welcome the fact that people can buy such bikes.