Bikepacking in Cornwall - West Kernow Way

[peetee]

Zulu Eleven, you refer to ‘we’ in your posts. Can you tell me in what capacity you are commenting? Thanks.

[Zulu Eleven]

Zulu Eleven, you refer to ‘we’ in your posts. Can you tell me in what capacity you are commenting? Thanks.

I have been national off-road advisor for CUK for last five years and done have a lot of the route development and research on this and KAW

[horizon]

Two: Brambles/mud/nettles. Within the bounds of extremes (and I’m thinking here of one lane I know that isn’t on this route which is absolutley impenetrable six foot deep brambles and rhododendron bushes) then there is a simple answer: “that’s off-road cycling”. It changes with the seasons. There are a couple of sections that will be seriously wet and muddy and impassable after wet weather ... with the odd squelch and slip it should be fine and rideable most of the year - but what I have seen from this end is a very clear reminder of just *how* separated society has become from nature - people with what appears to be little or no understanding of seasonality or weather, of how weather affects trails, of tyre choice, of nettles - but as far as I’m concerned encountering these issues is part of the joys of the countryside and is an ingrained and inherent part of rough-stuff/off-road cycling/mountain biking proper (rather than blasting round a groomed skalextric track in a forest park).

WKW has bits of everything, there are short stretches (the most difficult of which are optional) where you may have to get off and push, another rider might not I believe we have put out a lot of information discussing and informing on this, including very clearly saying that some off-road skills and experience are required… if your background is entirely road cycling then this probably isn’t the route for you - but it’s all rideable by an experienced, skilled rider,

ZuluEleven: thanks for that. You make a good case for it - I've highlighted a couple of quotes that I really like. I think the issue is one of presentation: I get the impression from the CUK website that this is a walk in the park and cream tea on the beach. There is no mention (AFAICS) of the skills required. But I actually think your way of looking at it is good and makes it much clearer as to what this route is all about.

[slowster]

encountering these issues is part of the joys of the countryside and is an ingrained and inherent part of rough-stuff/off-road cycling/mountain biking proper

[Zulu Eleven]

ZuluEleven: thanks for that. You make a good case for it - I've highlighted a couple of quotes that I really like. I think the issue is one of presentation: I get the impression from the CUK website that this is a walk in the park and cream tea on the beach. There is no mention (AFAICS) of the skills required. But I actually think your way of looking at it is good and makes it much clearer as to what this route is all about.

Thanks. It’s interesting you say that because both the website and guidebook (available free online or purchased as a paper copy) both contain a considerable amount of information on that, and I would be interested if you though that wasn’t clear, or if the problem is people just not reading it:

[horizon]

This is the page I read (in full, twice):

https://www.cyclinguk.org/west-kernow-way

I was particularly taken with the photo of a pair of oldies having a break. Nowhere does it say that (if I'm right):

1. It isn't signposted
2. The surface is difficult
3. Accommodation will probably mean wild campng.

I'm sticking with my point that what you have described makes sense but that the PR dept. needs to add a paragraph early on in bold, red letters. Otherwise I think it's great.

[peetee]

I have a number of years experience of this area riding rigid and full-sus MTB’s and a touring bike with cyclocross tyres. I can certainly vouch for the accuracy of this information with regard to terrain and bike suitability.
Excellent work Zulueleven, thank you.

[horizon]

peetee: this is the kind of info I was looking for (and ZuluEleven linked to). I just think it needs to be a bit more up front, although it isn't far away.

I think the route is a real physical challenge. I did take a group on a cycle tour all over Cornwall a few years back. We used lanes and quiet roads but this route would have been a definite no-no (though we touched on it in parts I think). Maybe this route actually defines backpacking (at last!) .

[Zulu Eleven]

This is the page I read (in full, twice):

https://www.cyclinguk.org/west-kernow-way

I was particularly taken with the photo of a pair of oldies having a break. Nowhere does it say that (if I'm right):

1. It isn't signposted
2. The surface is difficult
3. Accommodation will probably mean wild campng.

I'm sticking with my point that what you have described makes sense but that the PR dept. needs to add a paragraph early on in bold, red letters. Otherwise I think it's great.

I think I see your point, but the very fact that the route *isn’t* signposted means that you do have to go further through the looking glass into the pages that host that information. I’m also firmly of the opinion that that also creates an important hurdle to cross so that a rider with zero experience can’t just ‘follow the signs’ from the NCN and then end up in a rocky descent - a casual rider can’t just follow the route, they have to have taken steps to deliberately ‘opt in’ by setting up a GPS device and downloading the route to follow, and to do that there are several pages of text, a guidebook, and online videos, which you would expect them to access. (Just search ‘west Kernow way’ on YouTube)

Short of putting a text box on the download saying ‘I understand this is bumpy and rocky’ I’m not sure that putting it in big flashing lights would lead to those people who aren’t going to read it, reading it.

As for accommodation- four youth hostels on the route, and more campsites and b&b than you can shake a stick at.

[peetee]

Another point to the inclusion of this information is that the majority of the other, local authority supported, off-road trails in the county are way-marked and constructed in a way that is friendly to families and the less experienced with predominantly hard packed surfaces or tarmac.

[mattheus]

...
...
ZuluEleven: thanks for that. You make a good case for it - I've highlighted a couple of quotes that I really like. I think the issue is one of presentation: I get the impression from the CUK website that this is a walk in the park and cream tea on the beach. There is no mention (AFAICS) of the skills required. But I actually think your way of looking at it is good and makes it much clearer as to what this route is all about.

Pretty much agree with that.

Z11 has posted very helpful details here. But if you just read the CUK pages you would get a different impression - not hugely different, but it might trip up some people.

(I feel similar about the KAW; I live right next to the Oxfordshire Ridgeway, and feel the CUK pitch is far too rose-tinted spectacles. )

Publicists should also bear in mind petee's point:

Another point to the inclusion of this information is that the majority of the other, local authority supported, off-road trails in the county are way-marked and constructed in a way that is friendly to families and the less experienced with predominantly hard packed surfaces or tarmac.

[Zulu Eleven]

Another point to the inclusion of this information is that the majority of the other, local authority supported, off-road trails in the county are way-marked and constructed in a way that is friendly to families and the less experienced with predominantly hard packed surfaces or tarmac.

Yes, but that very much ties in with one of the reasons that this route *isn’t* way-marked - the points I made above about how having to go and download the route from pages that *do* contain that information

(Ie, you can’t access or download the route from the page mentioned above, you have to go on to a page that *does* contain all that information)

[peetee]

Understood. As far as I’m concerned part of the joy of this sort of riding is using the maps as you move along. A somewhat old-fashioned approach, maybe, but the best way to understand your place in the immediate and wider history, geography, geology etc, etc. It’s no great issue if the way is unnavigable, just look at the map and find an alternative.
It’s not just about the riding.

[Zulu Eleven]

Understood. As far as I’m concerned part of the joy of this sort of riding is using the maps as you move along. A somewhat old-fashioned approach, maybe, but the best way to understand your place in the immediate and wider history, geography, geology etc, etc. It’s no great issue if the way is unnavigable, just look at the map and find an alternative.
It’s not just about the riding.

The (paper) guide book includes 1:50k OS mapping for about 2/3 of the route (all the difficult bits) and old Barts/CTC mapping for the entirety. Though map-reading is (regrettably) a dying art in the days of mobile phones and google maps, and has never been particularly easy on the fly, particularly with heathland/moorland paths that offer a variety of hard to discern junctions.

[horizon]

First and foremost this is not for the faint hearted or happy family groups. It is pretty full on stuff. The loop we did round the lizard for instance measured 52 miles and had 4350 ft of climbs. When we weren't scrambling up rough single track we were flying down steep inclines to multiple creeks immediately followed equally steep climbs out . . .

I cannot begin to imagine what it might be like after some heavy rain. Of course this is not much of a problem for a day ride, part of the fun!!, but those carrying kit for 3-4 days might not appreciate getting so wet and muddy . . .

The foot path out of this beach is steep and advice is to get off and push as it is not a bridle path. If you're loaded up you'll be doing this anyway!!

Finally bike choice. I think for the first part of the Lizard section a gravel bike would awful with sections too rough and steep. I would even go as far as to recommend a light full sus bike for this section

Overall however the bits we did were thoroughly enjoyable and the scenery stunning. The people that have put this route together deserve much credit and I am sure with some further and continuous tweaking the route will be a great success.

Stu

ZuluEleven: re-reading Stu's post I think takes us nearest to the truth, in both regards. I've done numerous trips around Cornwall and have taken both family groups (and their young friends) and paying-tourists on overnight tours, in hotels, B and B, cycle camping and youth hostels all over this county. I wouldn't have chosen this route for any of those occasions and possibly not for my own tours either. But I would use it for a group that I knew were up for a physical challenge, had the right bikes and gear and knew what they were letting themselves in for.

Most people contemplating cycle tours are extraordinarily faint-hearted but for the hardy ones, this route actually looks great. It's off-road bikepacking and defines that term. Unfortunately this route might well attract the faint-hearted because of their fear of road traffic and lead them to a far worse fate (in their view! ).

My responses on this thread are predicated on a genuine misunderstanding of what this route was about, probably as a result of the bandying about of the term "bikepacking" in the media. But you've clarified it and the only difference between us now I think is whether CUK needs to add some more clarification in its introductory blurb.

So thanks again for your replies.