Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

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san0
Posts: 221
Joined: 9 Aug 2009, 2:26pm
Location: Berkshire

Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby san0 » 18 May 2011, 7:20pm

After a few rides out with CTC off-road group, a few of the riders commented on how heavy my Cube Ltd Pro 2010 model was. I thought it was light until I lifted/weighed their carbon full suss bikes! But mine did cost £850 (approx 14kg), as opposed to £2000+! (about 9kg)

What baffles me is that I can't shed any more weight off the bike as i prefer to keep certain things for:
- comfort (i love my Cane Creek Thudbuster seatpost)
- thirst quenching (i need my water bottle and i don't like to carry 2 litres in my rucksack
- emergency tools (yes my triangle frame pack looks ugly but it holds my essentials and lock)
- puncture resistance (i have a layer of kevlar panaracer tape on my downhill tubes also filled with slime)

So is it normal to have a hardtail at this weight to price ratio?
I don't want to carry over 7kg of stuff on my weak back either, just to make it light!

Image

stewartpratt
Posts: 2566
Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby stewartpratt » 18 May 2011, 9:15pm

WOW.

I can't quite begin to reconcile the statement "I can't shed any more weight off the bike" with that picture :)

A lock? Not something I've found I've needed, but when I use one I use Safeman ski locks - they're roughly the size and weight of an ice hockey puck. One of those, two if you're nervous, will stop the opportunist thief - and to my mind a determined thief will get through most locks anyway... so they're perfect locks for leaving the bike out of sight while you're in the pub.

Puncture tape? Slime? Downhill tubes? I've never needed any of those. I've tried all weights of tube and never found a difference in puncture resistance in practice. The tyre is what makes all the difference (and the rim - wider ones are less likely to snakebite IME) - I often use superlight tubes (they're handy mainly because they pack down smaller when carried as a spare) and I have no more punctures than with normal or downhill tubes. Seriously, you carrying lots of unnecessary weight in those wheels.

Emergency tools? Multitool, pump, puncture kit, tube. Do you have more than that?

Are you really averse to carrying the weight on your back? The aim with a mountain bike is for your centre of gravity to plot a nice smooth path and for the bike to track the ground. You'll be able to move the bike under you much more easily if you take the 7kg off the moving bit and stick it on the non-moving bit (ie your back).

bensonboo
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Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 7:28pm

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby bensonboo » 19 May 2011, 7:08pm

You can't have it both ways, as you say, built for speed or built for comfort...

If it was mine, I would ditch the bottle, that seatpost, the slime, kevlar tape, dh tubes, mudguards and the tools, I've been mountain biking for years and never felt the need to carry any of that stuff. A light multi tool and a drink before you set off.

slacker
Posts: 23
Joined: 3 Dec 2010, 9:50pm

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby slacker » 20 May 2011, 4:55pm

Looks like a decent do anything hardtail, I'd say the weight seems reasonable for that sort of bike, especially if that's with all that stuff strapped to it.
My hardtail weighs about the same, naked, it could maybe loose a few lbs but so could I :D

gilesjuk
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Joined: 17 Mar 2008, 10:10pm

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby gilesjuk » 20 May 2011, 6:00pm

If you don't like punctures then go tubeless. Although you're much better to build a tubeless wheelset rather than convert existing wheels. Add two decent tubeless tyres and you'll drop a lot of weight and not get (m)any punctures. You still carry a tube just incase, but having one tube on you is better than three (two in the tyres).

RobMac
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Location: Fife in Scotland.
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Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby RobMac » 22 May 2011, 4:11pm

14kg (30.8 lbs) is rediculous for hard tail at that price, its down to the amount of superfluous junk
thats on the bike, seat post, guards, lock, garmin, tyre/tube combo, that bike should only weigh
about 25-26 lbs. Your tools should be, multitool, pump, 1 or 2 tubes (forget repair kit unless your
away in the wilds for a weekend).

san0
Posts: 221
Joined: 9 Aug 2009, 2:26pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby san0 » 22 May 2011, 4:32pm

Ok - i think i'll try this and see what happens...

Original specs should weigh just over 12.5kg with orig seatpost and pedals. But I'm keeping my new Shimano Pd-M647 SPD Pedals, and ThudBuster LT seatpost. So therefore will weigh just over 13KG. May as well keep the tubes with slime now that they're installed and give peace of mind.

I can shift a kilo by removing the following and shoving back to the rucksack...

Rucksack contents:
Multitool
Tyre levers
spare tube
mini first aid kit
cable lock and brass padlock
snacks /gels
1 litre water

Remove currently on bike:
Bar ends
rear mudguard
the triangular bag

But I have a hunch the ride quality won't be any different unless I get new wheelset with tubeless tyres.
13 - 14 kg. to become about 11kg if i spend what - another £300? - So 1kg = £150. If that's the case, i'll keep the kilo, thanks.

RobMac
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Location: Fife in Scotland.
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Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby RobMac » 22 May 2011, 7:31pm

Dump the tubes, slime, kevlar layer and get good quality tyres and tubes and run at a descent
tyre pressure. Dont bother with the tubeless route youll lose more £££'s than lbs's :wink:
I run good quality tyres and tubes at the right pressure and I ride 200+ miles a week with NO
puntures (ops maybe I shouldnt say that) :lol:
Keep your water bottle on the bike it will encourage you to drink, is that a ltr or a 750 bottle?


Just had another look at your photo, Nobby Nics nothing wrong with them, but what size are
they????? Not 2.4's I hope.

san0
Posts: 221
Joined: 9 Aug 2009, 2:26pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby san0 » 22 May 2011, 9:17pm

Now my Cube feels naked - no rear mud guard or the bar ends.
Other pic: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qGpeKIat46tvF-MqhW6NrA?feat=directlink
Image

RUCKSACK 3.5kg - Contents shown for day trips - i.e. CTC weekend rides with pub stop. Larger pic https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/s9eV4eqEH6wYEkBMmNl0fw?feat=directlink
Image

Further questions - when you guys go out - what do you carry? Can you weigh your backpacks - see if it around 3.5 kg.

:D Extreme custom lugguage :lol: http://blog.adventurecycling.org/2010/10/fitting-bags-for-trails.htmlImage
Last edited by san0 on 22 May 2011, 10:30pm, edited 1 time in total.

san0
Posts: 221
Joined: 9 Aug 2009, 2:26pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby san0 » 22 May 2011, 9:22pm

RobMac wrote: Keep your water bottle on the bike it will encourage you to drink, is that a ltr or a 750 bottle?
Nobby Nics nothing wrong with them, but what size are they????? Not 2.4's I hope.


I carry 750ml bottle and after the morning ride, will fill up at the pub, or open up my 250ml carton drink.
Both Schwalbe tyres are 2.25, I really like how they roll on road as well.
So what would you say are good quality tyres and tubes then?

stewartpratt
Posts: 2566
Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby stewartpratt » 23 May 2011, 12:24pm

san0 wrote:Further questions - when you guys go out - what do you carry? Can you weigh your backpacks - see if it around 3.5 kg.


One tube (normally a superlight one).
Puncture kit.
Pump.
Multitool.
A Mars bar or similar.
Camelbak bladder.
Phone, wallet and keys.

If I know my brake pads are running low I'll carry spare pads and a very small pair of pliers.

I would guess that would be about half a kilo, maybe a bit more, plus however much water I've put in the bladder.

san0 wrote:But I have a hunch the ride quality won't be any different unless I get new wheelset with tubeless tyres.


Depends how you ride. If you keep your backside on the saddle a lot then it'll make less difference than if you're out of the saddle a lot. If you want to go fast on a hardtail you'll need to do the latter, but I'd guess from the Thudbuster you may lean to the former.

The same applies with wheels. Losing 1kg from the tyres and tubes is pretty damned significant if you're working the bike properly underneath you, since all that weight is right at the extremes in terms of the bike pitching back and forth over rough terrain, and it's at the extreme of the rotational weight that you have to spin up to speed when accelerating or decelerating. Again, though, less of a difference if you just sit down and be a passenger.

If you want much better bang for your buck in terms of the wheels, just buy some new tubes and get some tyres with decent lightweight resilience (if those don't already have it). I'd much rather fix a puncture once every six months and ride a lively bike than never have to fix a puncture on a bike that felt like a loaded skip. YMMV.

RobMac
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Location: Fife in Scotland.
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Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby RobMac » 23 May 2011, 11:13pm

One tube (normally a superlight one)................ # (super light usually means less punture resistant) :?
Puncture kit.
Pump.
Multitool.
A Mars bar or similar.
Camelbak bladder.
Phone, wallet and keys.


Stewart do you do most of your riding on your own?
I wouldnt have fellow MTB'ers waiting on me mucking about mending puntures rather than just changing a tube.
I'd probably take a repair kit if I was away for the weekend or some thing but not out just for the day.

stewartpratt
Posts: 2566
Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby stewartpratt » 24 May 2011, 1:01am

RobMac wrote:One tube (normally a superlight one)................ # (super light usually means less punture resistant) :?


IME the puncture resistance is almost entirely down to the tyre and with a relatively resistant tyre the tube makes no discernible difference to either snakebite or thorn punctures. YMMV, of course.

RobMac wrote:I wouldnt have fellow MTB'ers waiting on me mucking about mending puntures rather than just changing a tube. I'd probably take a repair kit if I was away for the weekend or some thing but not out just for the day.


Er... yeah, but as you noted above, I have the tube, so I can use that if I need a quick fix. If I get a puncture (which is extremely rare anyway) then I can just swap tubes - though to be honest, mostly I'll do a repair there and then. A puncture kit will fix loads of punctures - a new tube will only fix one. You'd save the weight of a biscuit for the risk of a long walk home if you got a second puncture...?

ratherbeintobago
Posts: 330
Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby ratherbeintobago » 10 Sep 2011, 1:31pm

Further questions - when you guys go out - what do you carry? Can you weigh your backpacks - see if it around 3.5 kg.


Tube, CO2 inflator, spare cartridge, multi-tool, tyre levers, bottle, and a short length of chain & 2 powerlinks if going out on my own locally. Camelbak Mule with a bit more stuff in it if going further afield.

Where do you ride? Kevlar tape and DH tubes probably overkill for XC riding, unless you're somewhere where pinch flats (eg. S Pennines) or thorns are particular hazards, in which case you should look at tubeless - your current rims/tyres are likely to be convertible.

Have a look through the gear you carry and ask yourself how much you're likely to need it. I can't see a time I'd need a lock, for example - if I'm out on my own, I'm not going to go anywhere I'd need to lock it up, and if out in a group, someone plays bike sentry if one of us is off to the bar at a pub stop.

Andy

Alex32
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012, 9:05pm

Re: Hardtail MTB Weight Watchers

Postby Alex32 » 11 Jan 2012, 9:21pm

My standard kit attached to the bike ALWAYS:

Tube, pump, multi-tool, some chain and a couple of powerlinks and of course a bottle.
Also I always carry my cell phone just in case something goes badly wrong.

These things I would consider essential.

Alex