Public Liability Insurance?

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ratherbeintobago
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Public Liability Insurance?

Postby ratherbeintobago » 18 Jul 2019, 7:40pm

Wearing one of my work hats, I have been roped into organising a work-related bike ride in Sep - for various reasons (mainly that we’ve not done this before…) the numbers are relatively small (about 12 people) and it’s not open access (all the other participants are work colleagues).

I’m told we’ll need public liability insurance; any recommendations about how to go about getting this, and where from?

Thanks!

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gaz
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby gaz » 18 Jul 2019, 11:23pm

Similar thread here: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=122282
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ratherbeintobago
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby ratherbeintobago » 19 Jul 2019, 7:00am

Similar, but as this is a one off I’m not proposing to create a CTC affiliated group, and I don’t think we have corporate insurance for this kind of thing,

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gaz
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby gaz » 19 Jul 2019, 7:31am

gaz wrote:FAQs about the Affiliated Group Organiser's Liability Cover are linked from here.

8. I’m a member of Cycling UK but have never organised an event or led a ride. I’ve been asked by a friend to organise a charity event on behalf of a local church. How can I get insurance?

Answer: Organisers’ Liability cover may be available subject to a completed proposal form. Contact Cycling UK insurance brokers, Butterworths for advice on 0151 494 4400


Please note that gaz is not FCA regulated and cannot assess individual needs for insurance. You will not receive advice or recommendations from gaz about them. Please direct your queries to your chosen insurance provider, who may be either vaguely reassuring or reassuringly vague in their response (wonderful phrase, my thanks to mjr for providing it on another thread). Hand wash only. Do not iron. Your home may be at risk if you leave the gas on whilst on a Works Charity Ride. Posted on a forum that contains track nuts and cannot be guaranteed track nut free.
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slowster
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby slowster » 19 Jul 2019, 10:34am

Since the bike ride is 'work related' and involves only employees, it may be covered by the business's existing commercial public liability insurance policy, or if not (or if there is doubt about whether it's already covered) the insurers may be willing to confirm it is covered (they might charge a small extra premium, which should be less than what any one-off stand alone policy would cost elsewhere).

The business's policy will be limited to cover for liability for activities of the business and which are in accordance with the 'Business Description' in the policy. So if your business is 'solicitor' and you branch out into demolition contracting, that is not covered unless and until the business description is changed to include that.

However, it is recognised that all businesses will usually have some activities (including welfare) which are not directly related to the business description. So the policy would typically also cover things like provision of first aid, operating a staff canteen etc. It should also include things like sending staff on a team building event, a works' outing, or, say, the annual company golf tournament.

It's fairly common nowadays for companies to have events like a staff bike ride, often typically a charity fundraising event, and I would expect the company's Public Liability insurer to pick these up without charge in most cases (in fact in most cases they are probably not even notified to the insurer, but I would still expect the insurer to accept or agree restrospectively that they were covered if there was an accident).

So, my advice is to speak to whomever deals with your company's insurance broker, and ask them to contact the broker and get confirmation of whether the event would be covered, and if not whether it could be covered for a small charge. When doing so, provide very succint information about the event:

- what the ride is, e.g. 80 mile ride from A to B, and what sort of ride (presumably not a race, maybe for charity or a team building event)
- numbers involved
- tell them it's employees only
- if it's in work hours, point that out (it strengthens the argument that it's not just some workmates doing it independently - it's an activity authorised by the business).

skyhawk
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby skyhawk » 19 Jul 2019, 4:43pm

ratherbeintobago wrote:Wearing one of my work hats, I have been roped into organising a work-related bike ride in Sep - for various reasons (mainly that we’ve not done this before…) the numbers are relatively small (about 12 people) and it’s not open access (all the other participants are work colleagues).

I’m told we’ll need public liability insurance; any recommendations about how to go about getting this, and where from?

Thanks!



Surely public liability insurance and any insurance to cover damage to another person or property is a GIVEN, and common sense.

I have it in case I damage someones car etc or hit a pedestrian by accident, it should be mandatory same as car insurance.

If I was hit by someone seriously I would sue them for every penny,

British Cycling do it as do ANY and all insurance companies who offer business insurance, I have it as a pro photographer, AND I have public indemnity insurance
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

profpointy
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby profpointy » 19 Jul 2019, 4:50pm

skyhawk wrote:
ratherbeintobago wrote:Wearing one of my work hats, I have been roped into organising a work-related bike ride in Sep - for various reasons (mainly that we’ve not done this before…) the numbers are relatively small (about 12 people) and it’s not open access (all the other participants are work colleagues).

I’m told we’ll need public liability insurance; any recommendations about how to go about getting this, and where from?

Thanks!



Surely public liability insurance and any insurance to cover damage to another person or property is a GIVEN, and common sense.

I have it in case I damage someones car etc or hit a pedestrian by accident, it should be mandatory same as car insurance.

If I was hit by someone seriously I would sue them for every penny,

British Cycling do it as do ANY and all insurance companies who offer business insurance, I have it as a pro photographer, AND I have public indemnity insurance


Compulsory 3rd party insurance for cycling is pretty much the same as a cycle ban. Children simply wont be able to cycle apart from maybe a small and middle class minority, no new cyclists, cyclists become even more ostracised, those who never learnt as kids want cycles out of their way. Basically it's a ban

better have compulsory pedestrian insurance incase you blunder into a car and damage it

skyhawk
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby skyhawk » 20 Jul 2019, 10:01am

profpointy wrote:
skyhawk wrote:
ratherbeintobago wrote:Wearing one of my work hats, I have been roped into organising a work-related bike ride in Sep - for various reasons (mainly that we’ve not done this before…) the numbers are relatively small (about 12 people) and it’s not open access (all the other participants are work colleagues).

I’m told we’ll need public liability insurance; any recommendations about how to go about getting this, and where from?

Thanks!



Surely public liability insurance and any insurance to cover damage to another person or property is a GIVEN, and common sense.

I have it in case I damage someones car etc or hit a pedestrian by accident, it should be mandatory same as car insurance.

If I was hit by someone seriously I would sue them for every penny,

British Cycling do it as do ANY and all insurance companies who offer business insurance, I have it as a pro photographer, AND I have public indemnity insurance


Compulsory 3rd party insurance for cycling is pretty much the same as a cycle ban. Children simply wont be able to cycle apart from maybe a small and middle class minority, no new cyclists, cyclists become even more ostracised, those who never learnt as kids want cycles out of their way. Basically it's a ban

better have compulsory pedestrian insurance incase you blunder into a car and damage it


Daft answer, so compulsory car insurance stops people buying cars, it would be about £15 a year so that argument is silly to begin with as is pedestrian.

I also believe 100% that anyone owning an animal/pet should by law have pet health insurance, having been a volunteer for pet rescue charity I have seen my fare share of pets in agony and neglect because of unaffordable vet care

If people WANT something enough they will find a way to pay, remember all the TV programs where people can't afford to feed and cloth their children they say,............... lighting another cigarette !!!!

I only have my pension, I can afford insurance................. don't smoke,drink.................. chose your priority in life
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

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mjr
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby mjr » 20 Jul 2019, 10:31am

Compulsory car insurance doesn't stop people driving. They just drive uninsured instead. :(
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Vorpal
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby Vorpal » 20 Jul 2019, 11:45am

There are few enough people cycling as it is. Part of the problem is that the only folks who cycle now, are those who want it enough.

If we put barriers up, like requiring insurance, it won't make the case easier for those on the margins. And it will kill cycling for the folks who only do it a couple of times each year.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby Mike Sales » 20 Jul 2019, 11:51am

Would insurance be as much as £15? Much of that would be administration and profit for the insurers.
Of course Cycling UK members get £10m third party insurance thrown in with membership. More efficient than each individual having to purchase it.

slowster
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby slowster » 20 Jul 2019, 1:13pm

This is a non-issue. If you have household contents insurance, then you almost certainly have general public liability cover which would extend to riding a bike for leisure, pleasure and commuting purposes (i.e. probably not for racing which should be picked up by British Cycling membership, and I suspect probably not for people working for Deliveroo, which would be a business/commercial risk for which a specific policy would probably be needed). The cover will include members of the family living at the same address.

slowster
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby slowster » 20 Jul 2019, 3:06pm

More relevant to the OP's question, is the fact that the cover private individuals will have under their household contents insurance will not extend to cover their employer, and moreover it will not cover the individual if the activity is deemed to be something that was in the course of their employment.

That is why the company's public liability and employers' liability insurance policies cover (or need to cover) such activities by employees which are at the behest of - or organised by the company, especially on company time. If an employee injures or kills a third party or damages their property, the third party will undoubtedly sue the company (in addition to or instead of the employee), if it becomes clear that the individual was acting in a work related activity or under the control of the employer and that their household contents insurer will therefore refuse to deal with the claim.

This means that if and when the OP asks if the company's liability policies will cover the event, he is effectively looking after the company's interests and protecting the company against being sued and discovering too late that - for whatever reason - its insurer will not pay. In other words, he is not asking the company to do the group a favour by ensuring that they are covered.

ratherbeintobago
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Re: Public Liability Insurance?

Postby ratherbeintobago » 21 Jul 2019, 9:14am

slowster wrote:More relevant to the OP's question, is the fact that the cover private individuals will have under their household contents insurance will not extend to cover their employer, and moreover it will not cover the individual if the activity is deemed to be something that was in the course of their employment.

That is why the company's public liability and employers' liability insurance policies cover (or need to cover) such activities by employees which are at the behest of - or organised by the company, especially on company time. If an employee injures or kills a third party or damages their property, the third party will undoubtedly sue the company (in addition to or instead of the employee), if it becomes clear that the individual was acting in a work related activity or under the control of the employer and that their household contents insurer will therefore refuse to deal with the claim.

This means that if and when the OP asks if the company's liability policies will cover the event, he is effectively looking after the company's interests and protecting the company against being sued and discovering too late that - for whatever reason - its insurer will not pay. In other words, he is not asking the company to do the group a favour by ensuring that they are covered.


Having spoken to Butterworths, this does seem to be their interpretation too. Just waiting for them to get back to me with a quote…