"Chopper" Cyclist killed in 3-rider collision (Plastic hats)

For all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmet usage will be moved here.
Post Reply
jgurney
Posts: 1212
Joined: 10 May 2009, 8:34am

"Chopper" Cyclist killed in 3-rider collision (Plastic hats)

Post by jgurney »

From BBC news online:

"A cyclist has died after colliding with another rider on a country road.
The man, 50, suffered major head injuries after falling from his bike at about 22:00 BST on Thursday.
A woman cycling in front of him came off her bike on Hill Lane in Colne‎, Lancashire, causing him to collide with another male cyclist, police said.
He was taken to Royal Blackburn Hospital and later transferred to Royal Preston Hospital where he died the next day.
The other male rider, 40, was uninjured while the 19-year-old woman suffered bruising to her leg.
Sgt David Hurst, of Lancashire Police, appealed for witnesses to come forward and said his "thoughts are with his family" after these "tragic circumstances"."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-la ... e-36293065
User avatar
Paulatic
Posts: 7804
Joined: 2 Feb 2014, 1:03pm
Location: 24 Hours from Lands End

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by Paulatic »

Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/
E2E info
iviehoff
Posts: 2411
Joined: 20 Jan 2009, 4:38pm

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by iviehoff »

Curiously, on Friday someone said to me "how long until a cyclist on cyclist collison causes a death". He was thinking of the situation in London, with the rapid growth in cycling and increasingly dense corralling them into superhighways and other routes. Clearly this incident is a random incident that could have happened any time.
Bez
Posts: 1218
Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 10:41am
Contact:

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by Bez »

iviehoff wrote:Curiously, on Friday someone said to me "how long until a cyclist on cyclist collison causes a death". He was thinking of the situation in London, with the rapid growth in cycling and increasingly dense corralling them into superhighways and other routes. Clearly this incident is a random incident that could have happened any time.


There were three fatal cyclist-on-cyclist collisions last year (although one was during a race). ISTR one of this year's earlier fatalities was also reported as being possibly due to contact between two riders.
climo
Posts: 590
Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 8:08am
Location: Warminster

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by climo »

Hate to ask this but was he wearing a helmet? If not and being a head injury would one have helped him?
User avatar
hatless
Posts: 46
Joined: 11 Apr 2008, 8:49pm
Location: Northampton

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by hatless »

Would it have helped the woman who bruised her leg if she had been wearing motorcycling leathers? Would it have helped if they had all been on recumbents and falling off feet first? Would it have been better if they had all stayed at home?

There are many questions we could ask, and they all reveal a theory or two, and in some cases an axe to grind.
climo
Posts: 590
Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 8:08am
Location: Warminster

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by climo »

That's daft. I think it's a fair question and no doubt will occur to others. I'm not trying to preach or even trying to restart that intractable debate.

I had a horrendous head injury (not cycling) which would certainly have been mitigated or even eliminated had I been wearing a helmet. It has totally changed my life. Having seen what happened to me (paralysed, 2.5 years in rehab, blah, blah) all my friends wear helmets. Your choice of course but please don't try to belittle other peoples questions and viewpoints.
Bez
Posts: 1218
Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 10:41am
Contact:

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by Bez »

climo wrote:Hate to ask this but was he wearing a helmet? If not and being a head injury would one have helped him?


1. Reports are not definitive but at least one suggests not (references here).
2. Maybe, maybe not.

Can we start asking the same question of people who die of (or otherwise suffer) head injuries in cars and on foot, please?
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by horizon »

climo wrote:Hate to ask this but was he wearing a helmet? If not and being a head injury would one have helped him?


I think it's a good question and ideally this thread should be moved to the Helmets section where it can be discussed fully.

It was certainly on my mind. Here we have a tragic accident but one that was witnessed, could be carefully calibrated and didn't involve a vehicle. Had this been an air or train crash it would be thoroughly investigated. If it won't be or cannot be then we are none the wiser.

My guess climo is that we will not know - we will be back to conjecture. It is a shame that all the tools of forensic science cannot get us any further forward. My own view is that the crash was severe enough to make a helmet useless but that is only opinion.

My biggest fear is that a coroner will suggest that had he been wearing a helmet he would have survived (based on nothing more than personal speculation).
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Bez
Posts: 1218
Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 10:41am
Contact:

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by Bez »

climo wrote:I'm not trying to preach or even trying to restart that intractable debate.


Understood.

climo wrote:I had a horrendous head injury (not cycling) which would certainly have been mitigated or even eliminated had I been wearing a helmet. Having seen what happened to me (paralysed, 2.5 years in rehab, blah, blah) all my friends wear helmets. Your choice of course but…


Buh? *rubs eyes*

;)
Bez
Posts: 1218
Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 10:41am
Contact:

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by Bez »

horizon wrote:My guess is that we will not know - we will be back to conjecture.


Understood.

horizon wrote:My own view is that the crash was severe enough to make a helmet useless


Buh? *rubs eyes*

;)
roubaixtuesday
Posts: 5814
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Hi climo.

Sorry to hear of your accident. All the best with rehab/recovery.

I think what people take issue with is:

which would certainly have been mitigated or even eliminated had I been wearing a helmet

(my emphasis)

It's fine for you to believe a helmet would have protected you. But it is very far from certain that it would, on average protect cyclists, and indeed the evidence is that any such protection is so small as to be unmeasurable in real world studies. This is NOT the case with some other forms of transport protection (motorbike helmets, seat belts, airbags for instance). So to ask the question "was she wearing a helmet" is interpreted as blaming victims for their injuries, rather than trying to address the real issues. Which are generally road design and driver behaviour.

The emphasis on helmets is very frustrating; when in A&E with my son, who face planted, we were asked perhaps a dozen times if he'd been wearing a helmet. Yet for his injuries, it would have made no difference. Stabbing victims aren't asked repeatedly if they were wearing a kevlar vest. Imagine the outcry if they were. My son was, actually, wearing a helmet.

[full disclosure: I normally but not always wear a helmet. If nothing else it makes an excellent high level mounting point for extra lights]
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by horizon »

Bez wrote:
horizon wrote:My own view is that the crash was severe enough to make a helmet useless


Buh? *rubs eyes*

;)


I don't follow.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Bez
Posts: 1218
Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 10:41am
Contact:

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by Bez »

I'm just amused by the statements to the effect that it's all wild conjecture—that "we will not know", and that "all the tools of forensic science cannot get us any further forward"—followed immediately by the conjecture that the entirely unreported "severity" of the crash was "enough to make a helmet useless".

But at least it makes a nice counter to the earlier post about not preaching followed immediately by preaching :)
User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Post by meic »

followed immediately by the conjecture that the entirely unreported "severity" of the crash was "enough to make a helmet useless"


The reported fact that the rider died of a severe brain injury may just pass in most people's eyes as a report of the "severity" of the crash.
Yma o Hyd
Post Reply