Deterring mobile phone use

thirdcrank
Posts: 30158
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Deterring mobile phone use

Postby thirdcrank » 10 Oct 2016, 12:14pm

I've just seen this report of the trial of a driver who pleaded guilty to causing death by dangerous driving:

The court was told it would be shown video shot by a camera inside the lorry cab which shows Mr Kroker using the phone, and "the fast-approaching queue of vehicles."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-37607400

If some people are so unconcerned that they will do this even when their actions are being recorded, it makes me wonder what will deter them.

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby meic » 10 Oct 2016, 12:20pm

He wouldnt have used the phone if he thought he was going to crash. like most phone users they dont believe that using the phone while driving makes THEM dangerous. THEY are quite capable of handling a vehicle and a phone at the same time.
Yma o Hyd

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 18508
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Vorpal » 10 Oct 2016, 1:28pm

Yet, in the wake of the accident, there were calls for Highways England to do something about the 'dangerous road'.

Not for the police to address phone use by drivers.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8490
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Bonefishblues » 10 Oct 2016, 1:33pm

What I don't understand is that this was a commercial driver, using a route he would have used often - and one where he went up a lengthy, steep hill, where traffic often compresses towards the top, often quite suddenly, but where visibility is good, especially in a lorry.

It really is stupidity and recklessness on a quite breathtaking level.

However, it would be possible to improve this road by having a "queue ahead" sensor and signs (not that this guy would have taken any notice, I guess) to alert traffic of the upcoming bunching.

reohn2
Posts: 40223
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby reohn2 » 10 Oct 2016, 9:06pm

I'm waiting to see what his sentence is.......
-----------------------------------------------------------

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8490
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Bonefishblues » 10 Oct 2016, 9:22pm

Heavy and exemplary I think

reohn2
Posts: 40223
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby reohn2 » 10 Oct 2016, 9:24pm

Bonefishblues wrote:Heavy and exemplary I think

Nothing less than the maximum sentence would be anywhere near adequate IMHO.
I'll wait and see
-----------------------------------------------------------

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8490
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Bonefishblues » 10 Oct 2016, 9:38pm

It's difficult to see a scenario with more aggravating circumstances tbh. The evidence is all there on film, too.

thirdcrank
Posts: 30158
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby thirdcrank » 10 Oct 2016, 9:45pm

One of the arguments against heavy sentences is that it's the likelihood of detection rather than an exemplary sentence which is the greatest deterrent. For being filmed to be a deterrent, I suppose there needs to be a strong expectation that it will be watched without a crash occurring.

andrewk
Posts: 354
Joined: 20 May 2011, 3:19pm
Location: SW London

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby andrewk » 12 Oct 2016, 12:47am

thirdcrank wrote:One of the arguments against heavy sentences is that it's the likelihood of detection rather than an exemplary sentence which is the greatest deterrent. For being filmed to be a deterrent, I suppose there needs to be a strong expectation that it will be watched without a crash occurring.


I don't expect any improvement in any aspect of driving standards unless traffic police numbers are increased...few cops = low chance of detection = frequent transgression.

PH
Posts: 9643
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby PH » 12 Oct 2016, 6:41am

andrewk wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:One of the arguments against heavy sentences is that it's the likelihood of detection rather than an exemplary sentence which is the greatest deterrent. For being filmed to be a deterrent, I suppose there needs to be a strong expectation that it will be watched without a crash occurring.


I don't expect any improvement in any aspect of driving standards unless traffic police numbers are increased...few cops = low chance of detection = frequent transgression.

We live in such a technological age it should be possible to come up with a detection method other than expensive police time. What needs to change IMO is the political will.

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 9814
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby 661-Pete » 12 Oct 2016, 9:02am

I can't think of a workable prevention technology, as things stand. Of course, it would be easy enough to put in a device which jams all phone signals inside the vehicle - but that would stop passengers as well, from quite innocently using a phone.

A possible option is for this jamming device to be activated only if only the driver's seat is occupied. After all, most modern cars have some sort of sensor to detect when someone is sitting in a seat - else how do those irritating seat-belt warning bleeps operate?

I am now reminded of those stories about drivers, wanting to use the 'multi-occupant' lane on a busy road, deploying an inflatable doll or mannequin or whatever. Are they true? Cue the somewhat heavier mannequin.....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

reohn2
Posts: 40223
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby reohn2 » 12 Oct 2016, 10:27am

andrewk wrote:I don't expect any improvement in any aspect of driving standards unless traffic police numbers are increased...few cops = low chance of detection = frequent transgression.


PH wrote:We live in such a technological age it should be possible to come up with a detection method other than expensive police time. What needs to change IMO is the political will.


IMO detecting mobile use with actually seeing the driver using it is very unlikely as there's so many ways of denying it,someone else in the car using the phone being but one.

The most effective deterrent and method of detection is traffic police and more of them,two police officers,one in plain clothes and one further up the road in uniform would catch more criminals than anything else,and could lead to the detection of other criminal activity by some mobile users.
I also think if the offender claims they weren't using the phone(s) it should be taken away for analysis and any after the time of the offence disputes of use shouldn't be allowed.
I think penalties for serious motoring offences are far too soft and excuses and claims of hardship far to easy too get past a judge.
If people think think can get away with crime they'll try if they don't they won't,and if they know the penalty stings enough they won't risk it.

I agree the political will needs to be there for serious and dangerous road crime to by curtailed(I'm think in the terms of ton of bricks sentencing and a flood of police on the roads),road crime can never be wiped out entirely but it can with the political will laws and penalties in place and good effective policing,be kept to an absolute minimum.
At the moment the roads are a free for all with little or no policing and the belief by some that penalties are an occupational hazard nothing more.
We as a society need to ask ourselves if we're willing to accept the kinds of incidents such as in the OP to continually be in the news or whether we want to stop it.
-----------------------------------------------------------

axel_knutt
Posts: 1590
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby axel_knutt » 12 Oct 2016, 12:06pm

PH wrote:What needs to change IMO is the political will.

Politicians are elected to provide voters with what they want, and the voters who want to use their phones outnumber the victims who want it stopped. It's one of the joys of democracy, like voters who want to use fossil fuels outnumbering those affected by climate change.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 16400
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby mjr » 12 Oct 2016, 12:25pm

661-Pete wrote:A possible option is for this jamming device to be activated only if only the driver's seat is occupied. After all, most modern cars have some sort of sensor to detect when someone is sitting in a seat - else how do those irritating seat-belt warning bleeps operate?

They operate poorly. Some seat-belt non-users sit on a large thick chopping board that puts their weight on the seat edges and avoids setting off the sensor, as I discovered during some survey I did in Somerset years ago. (More common was to connect the seatbelt and then sit on top of it - I don't know if some cars have a sensor that not enough belt has been extended, but I'd expect you could defeat that with a clothes peg.)

reohn2 wrote:IMO detecting mobile use with actually seeing the driver using it is very unlikely as there's so many ways of denying it,someone else in the car using the phone being but one.

Really? Just aim a camera downhill into the driver's side window. You'll see the idiots playing with the phone in their lap, just as I do when I cycle on a raised cycle track to the right of a carriageway. It's an epidemic. Anyway, there's enough using the phones in full view through the windscreen to catch with cameras for starters to make a significant difference.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.