Crapper Cycle Lanes

Pete Owens
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Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby Pete Owens » 8 Nov 2016, 10:55pm

A sequel to Crap Cycle Lanes - another book inspired by Facility of the Month - is now available from Eye Books:
http://eye-books.com/books/crapper-cycle-lanes
The ideal Christmas present for your local highways engineer.

The royalties come to Warrington Cycle Campaign - and the book itself is campaign material.

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mjr
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby mjr » 9 Nov 2016, 10:58am

Why teach them how to do it? Better to give them copies of Making Space for Cycling (print copies should be at the CN/CUK conference 19 November, St Albans) or even the Sustrans design manual... better yet, www.writeToThem.com to your MP and suggest that some decent standard should be mandatory instead of keeping repeating the mistake of issuing weak poor guidance and leaving it to local councils to screw up.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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karlt
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby karlt » 9 Nov 2016, 1:09pm

Because they already know how to do it but don't give a flying one.

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661-Pete
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby 661-Pete » 9 Nov 2016, 5:44pm

Why weren't my local examples included?

Or perhaps they were. Not having seen the book, I don't know. But I reckon you could fill all the books in the British Library with examples from around the country.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

Ruadh495
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby Ruadh495 » 10 Nov 2016, 11:10am

Those look totally logical to me. The purpose of the markings is to deter cyclists from taking the lane at the pinch point, ensuring they can be close passed easily. This avoids a possible impediment to the flow of motor traffic through the "traffic calming" measure. No, you couldn't make it up, but can you see any other reason for them?

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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby pwa » 10 Nov 2016, 11:41am

661-Pete wrote:Why weren't my local examples included?

Or perhaps they were. Not having seen the book, I don't know. But I reckon you could fill all the books in the British Library with examples from around the country.

Bizarre!

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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby iviehoff » 10 Nov 2016, 11:48am

661-Pete wrote:Why weren't my local examples included?

Perhaps because no one has ever drawn them to the attention of the Warrington Cycling Campaign Facility of the Month compiler, Pete Owens, as requested here. http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-th ... er2016.htm

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mjr
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby mjr » 10 Nov 2016, 11:58am

If only a fraction of this effort and money went into glossy books of good cycle lanes and tracks. Keep advertising and marketing crap like this and you'll keep getting crap.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby reohn2 » 10 Nov 2016, 5:49pm

Is there enough money in the kitty to send a copy as a christmas present,to every politrickian and highway engineer in the country?
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661-Pete
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby 661-Pete » 10 Nov 2016, 6:58pm

Ruadh495 wrote:Those look totally logical to me. The purpose of the markings is to deter cyclists from taking the lane at the pinch point, ensuring they can be close passed easily. This avoids a possible impediment to the flow of motor traffic through the "traffic calming" measure. No, you couldn't make it up, but can you see any other reason for them?

Actually, I find them quite helpful. The marked-off and differently-coloured areas are self-evidently parts of the road which must be avoided, hence, whenever I'm cycling past those bollards I go to primary, as guided by the curved white lines.

Which is what I'd do anyway.....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

MikeF
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby MikeF » 11 Nov 2016, 9:45am

reohn2 wrote:Is there enough money in the kitty to send a copy as a christmas present,to every politrickian and highway engineer in the country?
You're on the right lines. It pointless publishing this for the benefit of those who know. Sending it to "every politrickian and highway engineer" won't do anything much either; it will be filed and lost. What is needed is engagement.

West Sussex CC recently held this cycling summit, which should have drawn attention to basics of cycling requirements to some councillors and highway engineers. Unfortunately John O'Brien, who was there, has since resigned as council member for Highways and Transport and is replaced by Bob Lanzer. It remains to be seen what effect the summit will have, but at least the CC can be challenged if it doesn't adhere to the guidelines of the designs, ie the CC now has been made aware of some of what's needed. Quote it in new schemes in West Sussex and old ones that need rectifying. :wink:

The presentations are also viewable on the website. I haven't read the book, but presume it's more examples of what is on the Warrington Cycling Campaign website. These and other examples need to be "compiled" so that they can form a presentation of what has been done and what should be done. It's no good showing them to cyclists as we all know the problems. Councillors are the ones who control councils and schemes; they are the ones who should be the primary targets.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby MikeF » 11 Nov 2016, 10:49am

The Warrington Cycling Campaign highlights this, but fails to show what looks to be an absolutely horrendous junction a few hundred yards away. https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8988681,-1.3924769,3a,66.8y,96.02h,88.53t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1siv9_3o7CpRA0EdIaWZ09bw!2e0?hl=en-GB How does the DfT's "Think!" campaign relate to this?? :shock: :shock: Anyone know it?
It even has this facility for cyclists in the middle of the junction :shock:

The bus stop example is trivial compared with the junction layout, but it is symptomatic of the problem of cycling design. However major safety issues need to be at the top of the list - in my view the bus stop isn't one.

mjr wrote:Why teach them how to do it? Better to give them copies of Making Space for Cycling (print copies should be at the CN/CUK conference 19 November, St Albans) or even the Sustrans design manual... better yet, http://www.writeToThem.com to your MP and suggest that some decent standard should be mandatory instead of keeping repeating the mistake of issuing weak poor guidance and leaving it to local councils to screw up.
+1
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby mjr » 11 Nov 2016, 12:37pm

MikeF wrote:The Warrington Cycling Campaign highlights this, but fails to show what looks to be an absolutely horrendous junction a few hundred yards away. https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8988681,-1.3924769,3a,66.8y,96.02h,88.53t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1siv9_3o7CpRA0EdIaWZ09bw!2e0?hl=en-GB How does the DfT's "Think!" campaign relate to this?? :shock: :shock: Anyone know it?
It even has this facility for cyclists in the middle of the junction :shock:

I agree - the botched bus stop bypass is a good idea done badly, but by no means the worst example of a unnecessarily-conflict-causing bus stop. Mark a crossing on the cycle track and don't make it so narrow and that works elsewhere - ideally with the shelter on the island, so fewer people are trying to cross at the last minute when the bus arrives.

That "cyclists get f/hooked" crossroads is another good idea done badly - it's basically a copy of a Danish-style guided crossroads but they've neither pushed the motorist stop line back far enough, nor given cycles a pre-green phase, nor allowed people cycling to bypass the lights for left turn! I don't mind the "copenhagen turn" right turn waiting spaces on the left of the live flow, as I do that anyway at some junctions. Unsurprisingly, it's been criticised as dangerous but I'd also note that the previous roundabout layout had a poor cycling collision record too. I think the real question is why Southampton copied a Danish design and then compromised it into uselessness without these key elements:
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby MikeF » 11 Nov 2016, 2:26pm

Thanks for that explanation. The cycle lanes look too narrow to me, compared with the Danish ones. Agree you can't just take bits from a good design and hope that that is good enough. The complete design needs to be implemented or even improved, but I suspect improvement is way beyond scope for UK designers. It still looks prone to left hooks to me if a cyclist wants to go straight on and a motor vehicle turns left.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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661-Pete
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Re: Crapper Cycle Lanes

Postby 661-Pete » 11 Nov 2016, 9:35pm

I should perhaps add, that I think the 'Maple Drive' examples which I linked to above (there are about a dozen of them, at intervals along the whole length of the road) are positively dangerous, if taken in the way that some misbegotten traffic engineer apparently intended them to be taken! Consider: the cyclist takes the marked-off lane: on reaching its 'END' he/she re-emerges into the road traffic, maybe without looking behind. Meanwhile a following motorist has to 'chicane', first to the right to avoid the marked-off area, then to the left to avoid the bollards. Recipe for a collision!

Perhaps someone ought to 'do something' about these monstrosities. But how?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).