100 mile a day commute?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
landsurfer
Posts: 4956
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby landsurfer » 1 Jan 2017, 7:28pm

You don't get out much do you ..... :)

You seem to be desperate to provoke dissent....
Try channeling your latent anger ....
Go cycling ......
Like I do .....
And a genuine happy new year to you .....
Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right ... Carson.
The Road Goes On Forever ...

PH
Posts: 7495
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby PH » 1 Jan 2017, 8:04pm

landsurfer wrote:You don't get out much do you ..... :)

You seem to be desperate to provoke dissent....
Try channeling your latent anger ....
Go cycling ......
Like I do .....
And a genuine happy new year to you .....

Seems a bit uncalled for.
I've been out cycling thank you, nice CTC ride where electric cycles are welcome. Also rode three 200k audax in the last week to compete the Festive 500 where electric cycles would not be permitted.
You have this insistence that they're not cycles because they don't conform to sporting regulations. It seems perfectly reasonable for me to insist, just as vocally but without getting personal, that outside of the sporting sphere they are (As recognised by CTC/Cycling UK) cycles.
Last edited by PH on 1 Jan 2017, 8:45pm, edited 1 time in total.

Grandad
Posts: 1040
Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 12:22am
Location: Kent

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby Grandad » 1 Jan 2017, 8:33pm

(As recognised by CTC/Cycling UK)

And by Audax UK but only for rides below 200k. Does that help or confuse further :D

PH
Posts: 7495
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby PH » 1 Jan 2017, 8:43pm

Grandad wrote:
(As recognised by CTC/Cycling UK)

And by Audax UK but only for rides below 200k. Does that help or confuse further :D

I think that simplifies it :)
Where there's no competition, no points, they're permitted. Where the assist would give an unfair advantage towards those points they're not permitted.

PhilWhitehurst
Posts: 260
Joined: 9 Aug 2011, 4:14pm

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby PhilWhitehurst » 1 Jan 2017, 9:00pm

landsurfer wrote:
PhilWhitehurst wrote:Could I ride a 10 mile TT on a recumbent? No! Is it most definitely a bike? Yes!


Could I ride a 10 mile TT on a penny farthing ? No! Is it most definitely a bike ? Yes!

Missing the point slightly I think Chap ...


Indeed you are

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 16896
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 1 Jan 2017, 9:03pm

For the vast majority of purposes an e-assist pedal cycle is still a pedal cycle.

We don't want them in competition, that's fine. But outside of that minority niche activity? The more people getting themselves about without a tonne+ of metal and glass the better IMHO.

I added e-assist to my vehicle to make a slightly longer commute more easily achievable 5 days a week, with kids at home I want to keep the duration of the commute down...

I'll admit that it's a darn sight less than 100 miles a day, but I also know that most people would baulk at 28 miles a day... I'm also aware that I'm coming from a fairly long absence from cycling, and can't 'build up' my commute...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Ruadh495
Posts: 413
Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 11:10am

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby Ruadh495 » 4 Jan 2017, 11:43am

"Cycling" or not, I don't think an e-bike is the answer here. E-bikes are not much faster than normal bikes, sometimes slower, and they don't have sufficient battery range for a 100 mile day, even with a recharge halfway. I know 60+ mile ranges are often advertised, but that's under "test" conditions. In the real world most e-bikes have a range of about 30 miles. They also have enough drag in the motor gearing and extra weight be noticeable if you have to pedal with the power off (because the battery's flat). Few e-bikes have been tested over high mileages (yet) so I'd be concerned about the lifespan of the whole machine as well. Depreciation over that 18-24month period could easily be 100%.

Commuting adds up, so what the OP is looking at is a 500 mile week, not the same as an occasional 100 mile day at all. I'd say it's reasonable to commute 50% of what you would do comfortably for a leisure ride. So when I started I'd have been OK with a 20 mile day ride (I didn't ride much), but would only have been happy to commute 10 miles (OK I did do a 20 mile commute for a month or so, on a cheap "mountain" BSO. Bike wore out in a month...). Unfortunately my commute is 25 miles and no realistic way of cutting it. Getting an e-bike effectively cut that down to what I could cope with, which is what e-bikes do very well.

The best tool for the OP's commute would be the train (maybe bike-train-bike), if it weren't so expensive. Why does train travel for just one person cost so much more than using a car? I know the OP's figures are correct, I live in Hampshire too...

The lowest cost realistic option, unfortunately, is a small car. Motorcycles cost a little less to run and depreciate less, but are even more miserable than cycling when it's raining, and a lot more dangerous when it's icy (been there, done that). Don't underestimate the cost (and wear rate) of all that protective clothing as well. If buying a second car specifically for the commute, get one which has finished depreciating. Cars built since about 1996 are reliable even at enormous mileages. Throw it away when you have finished.

Bad news for the environment, of course, but it's a position forced on us by a dysfunctional public transport system. Ideally trains would be frequent, cheap and carry bikes, but we are talking London commuter belt here...

An electric car would work for this and save a lot on fuel, but there's the initial purchase cost.

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 16896
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 4 Jan 2017, 12:03pm

I'd not suggest a 30 mile range limit for an e-assist, I do that each day, taking just the top 20-40% of my battery (which isn't large at 360Wh).

I'd actually question most electric car's being able to do a pair of 50 mile commutes each day without a recharge in the middle. A Tesla could, but that's serious cash - although IIRC the new leaf has a 200 mile nominal range, so we're back into sanity there.

50 miles each way is a long way - the train is clearly the 'least bad' option, and if combined with a bike can actually be very pleasant, but in the UK they are frighteningly expensive compared with the direct costs of private motor transport.


Roll on 18-24 months and a house move...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Ruadh495
Posts: 413
Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 11:10am

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby Ruadh495 » 4 Jan 2017, 12:38pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:I'd not suggest a 30 mile range limit for an e-assist, I do that each day, taking just the top 20-40% of my battery (which isn't large at 360Wh).

I'd actually question most electric car's being able to do a pair of 50 mile commutes each day without a recharge in the middle. A Tesla could, but that's serious cash - although IIRC the new leaf has a 200 mile nominal range, so we're back into sanity there.

50 miles each way is a long way - the train is clearly the 'least bad' option, and if combined with a bike can actually be very pleasant, but in the UK they are frighteningly expensive compared with the direct costs of private motor transport.


Roll on 18-24 months and a house move...


About 30 miles on the typical 360Wh battery is the general consensus of the Pedelec Forum. My 25 miles can take as little as 30% or as much as 90%, depending how energetic I'm feeling, which way the wind is blowing, which tyres are fitted etc. Typical is about 75%. My battery is about the same size (actually 396Wh) and just over a year old. Battery range declines with age, 100 miles a day for 18 months would wear out one, probably two, batteries.

The Leaf sales team who visited my workplace said range was advertised as 160 miles, but 120 was realistic, so a Leaf would just do it (while the battery was new). Car batteries seem to have a longer lifespan than bike ones.

Yes, train would be best, but it's so expensive.

User avatar
horizon
Posts: 9565
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby horizon » 4 Jan 2017, 1:03pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:50 miles each way is a long way - the train is clearly the 'least bad' option, and if combined with a bike can actually be very pleasant, but in the UK they are frighteningly expensive compared with the direct costs of private motor transport.



The train fare for the OP's journey is £54.00 peak return. That's about 50p per mile. The HMRC tax allowed rate for motor vehicle mileage is 45p per mile so not far off. If the OP travelled off-peak arriving at work at 10.00 am, his train fare would be £33.30. He could work on the train and take calls etc and cycle part of it, as already suggested. If his work is reasonably flexible and well paid then I don't see the problem. If it isn't, then a 50 mile commute is mad whatever the mode of travel. Working from home one day a week would also start to transform matters. It's been well reported how the intransigence of employers makes coping with modern work much harder - the technology is all there.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

Ruadh495
Posts: 413
Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 11:10am

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby Ruadh495 » 4 Jan 2017, 1:15pm

The HMRC tax rate for car mileage is (IMO) rather generous. I think it tries to account for fixed costs like VED and Insurance which you pay anyway if you own a car, so they are not applicable when calculating costs for a particular journey. Though for a commute they may be, if you could dispose of the car... The OP's "car" estimate may also have been low, I suspect it didn't account for tyres, brake pads etc.

roberts8
Posts: 260
Joined: 20 May 2011, 9:14pm
Location: Surrey

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby roberts8 » 4 Jan 2017, 6:02pm

Having commuted through the winters when a lot younger and fitter it is still tough and I was way short of your intended mileage.
My wife has an electric bike which is one option.
Having seen 125 mopeds go on for ever in India I would buy a used one and service it and just use that. The Honda can be used with mitts and a protective skirt which may not look cool but someone I know who uses one says they are really warm. If you have time you could also deliver pizzas?

AaronR
Posts: 272
Joined: 18 Jul 2014, 8:12pm

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby AaronR » 4 Jan 2017, 8:19pm

Well this thread has been quite the proverbial can of worms!

Ruadh495 is quite correct, the costings for car and small capacity motorbike were fuel only, without any related costs, once these are added in then the cost of the train is potentially cheaper than the car, and approximately 30% more than a small capacity motorbike

Working from home isn't an option as the job requires attendance, but there is some bartering to be done for mobile working, and if I can have some of my travel time classified as mobile working then the train makes even more sense, especially if I can still do a percentage of the journey by bike

I'll be honest an E bike hadn't even made it on to the shortlist of options due to their range limitations and the dead weight even the best of them would become if any part of it failed - but not ruling it out when the job moves closer to home, if I can find one that rides like a motorbike, instead of pedal assist

andrewk
Posts: 354
Joined: 20 May 2011, 3:19pm
Location: SW London

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby andrewk » 4 Jan 2017, 9:27pm

I think that 100 miles per day is way too far for an ebike...they are restricted to 15.5mph, above that the assist switches off and one is left with a heavy bike. 15.5 mph is just too slow for the daily commute you envisage, ditto mopeds which are restricted to 28mph (and are not designed to do high milages).
An electric car would also be useless as it will be caught in traffic jams.
IMO the best solution is a motorbike or scooter. Basically 2 options: an old cheap but good quality 125, pros: cheap, v. low fuel consumption, cons: what you save on fuel you'll spend on maintenance (typically 3000 mile service intervals) unless you DIY.
2nd option: a bigger bike, (say a 250 / 300), still fuel efficient but better able to absorb higher milages and with longer service intervals. A scooter would give better weather protection than a motorbike.

Elizabethsdad
Posts: 1158
Joined: 15 Jan 2011, 7:09pm

Re: 100 mile a day commute?

Postby Elizabethsdad » 5 Jan 2017, 11:04am

andrewk wrote:I think that 100 miles per day is way too far for an ebike...they are restricted to 15.5mph, above that the assist switches off and one is left with a heavy bike. 15.5 mph is just too slow for the daily commute you envisage, ditto mopeds which are restricted to 28mph (and are not designed to do high milages).
An electric car would also be useless as it will be caught in traffic jams.
IMO the best solution is a motorbike or scooter. Basically 2 options: an old cheap but good quality 125, pros: cheap, v. low fuel consumption, cons: what you save on fuel you'll spend on maintenance (typically 3000 mile service intervals) unless you DIY.
2nd option: a bigger bike, (say a 250 / 300), still fuel efficient but better able to absorb higher milages and with longer service intervals. A scooter would give better weather protection than a motorbike.

I managed a 100 miles a week when I commuted on my e-bike. Take the charger with you and charge the battery up at work, and it only needs to have a 50 mile range.