Lejog for wimps please- or am I on my own? ( merged )

[bigjim]

Last year for the very first time in my life I took an, organised with full backup, tour. I realy enjoyed it and would do it again if it was not so expensive. You do however tend to just follow the leader without any real awareness about your destination or the towns, villages you are passing through, as you are just following a wheel. You are so wrapped up in chatting to different members of the group and the planning thing is nothinng to do with you so you don't bother. Yes you are looking around and enjoying the landscape etc but only to feast your eyes and talk about it. Maybe you see and appreciate more as you are not involved in map reading, timetables and such. Totally different experience than self supported. I enjoy both.

[Richard Fairhurst]

It would be really interesting to see if anyone can come up with a route which successfully minimises both climbing and traffic. My guess is that it'd be doable, but probably with a significantly higher mileage than the usual.

So I thought I'd play around and have a go at this...

http://cycle.travel/map/journey/33522 gets the total estimated climb down to 7800m. (cycle.travel's default suggestion, with no via points, is 9100m.)

I'd be interested to see how much people can reduce that while still staying off busy roads (A30, A49, A9 etc.). If you have the elevation panel open then it'll update the total climb every time you finish dragging the route. If you're logged in to the site then you can save your changed route and post a link here!

[robgul]

A little story from a few years ago.

We get many End2Enders coming though the village. It's the "main" road between The West and Dartmoor.
I happened to be in the village and saw that there were lots of cyclists turning into the carpark, so I went for a look-see and hopefully a chat.

They'd come up from LE the day before, and were heading over Dartmoor to Exeter. They'd turned in to meet up with their support who were parked. It was a big van with the rear doors open - tea urn(?) and other drinks etc plus snacks. I chatted ......... or tried to ........... to the support and to some of the riders.

Not one single person was interested in where they actually were, how hard Dartmoor was going to be, or what their route was over the next few days, or even through N England or Scotland. I was horrified internally, but puzzled externally ......... and I said so. I tried to chat to the support chappy, but he basically blanked me.
I wanted to say the standard thing, "Don't you know who I am?"

I smile about this all the time, and I see it just about every spring and summer.
I was horrified and puzzled, now I'm just a little sad, but with a wry smile.

That'll be the same ones I meet when they come through my patch.
Some of them barely know where they are ending up that same day. Absolutely no idea which route they are doing tomorrow and a vague recollection of where they were yesterday. Always on an organised event.
Riders on a DIY are totally different. Usually keen to chat on the road about their journey so far and keen to discuss where they are going. Ive also noticed over the years a number of solo riders are very nervous when riding two abreast so probably a major reason they do it alone.

Exactly - the "cash rich, time poor" people (having seen the Deloitte E2E a couple of times that applies to a lot of the riders) are typical package tour customers - almost on a par with the American tourist classic "If it's Tuesday it must be Lyon" [But as I heard it pronounced "lie on" -- along with Avignon with a hard G !]

Rob

[rareposter]

Some of them barely know where they are ending up that same day. Absolutely no idea which route they are doing tomorrow and a vague recollection of where they were yesterday. Always on an organised event.

That's one of my pet moans about organised events (inc Sportives) and also to a certain extent club rides with a designated ride leader.
"What did you think about [thing/place]?"
"Oh I didn't notice it..."

They can however recite their power figures, average speed and Strava stats without a second thought.

A friend in a cycle club used to take rides out regularly until other commitments meant he had to cut back on it. His club forum was alive with complaints that he wasn't ride leading anymore and he simply said "well take a group out, you know where we've been". It turned out that they didn't know at all as they had simply sat on his wheel every week without a clue of where they'd been, where they were going or how they'd got there...

/sigh

[bigjim]

Some of them barely know where they are ending up that same day. Absolutely no idea which route they are doing tomorrow and a vague recollection of where they were yesterday. Always on an organised event.

That's one of my pet moans about organised events (inc Sportives) and also to a certain extent club rides with a designated ride leader.
"What did you think about [thing/place]?"
"Oh I didn't notice it..."

They can however recite their power figures, average speed and Strava stats without a second thought.

A friend in a cycle club used to take rides out regularly until other commitments meant he had to cut back on it. His club forum was alive with complaints that he wasn't ride leading anymore and he simply said "well take a group out, you know where we've been". It turned out that they didn't know at all as they had simply sat on his wheel every week without a clue of where they'd been, where they were going or how they'd got there...

/sigh

But thats what happens on club rides. Especially when you are riding behind guys that have running those routes for 40 years or more. I'm guilty of riding a wheel on Sundays and most leaders are quite happy with that. They like being the knowledgeable one. Eventually you do start to pick up on the routes and if you use a garmin it will track the route you have been on anyway. I think most people go on club runs for the company and some enjoyable exercise.

[PH]

It turned out that they didn't know at all as they had simply sat on his wheel every week without a clue of where they'd been, where they were going or how they'd got there...
/sigh

Well they obviously enjoyed it or they wouldn't be missing it, so why would it matter?
People ride for all sorts of reasons and get all sorts out of it, this idea that one thing is somehow better than another seems odd to me.
MickF is a veteran of several E2Es, always the same route, that would drive me nuts, I tour to explore. I doubt he'd be too keen on my tours either, but they suite me as well as his suite him.
Riders chose organised tours for a variety of reasons, people like us, I don't know what that means, people like who? People like Bigjim? He's done loads of independent touring and then enjoyed an organised one, what's wrong with that? CTC tours are full of people who've done all sorts on their own and then sometimes an organised tour offers something they're looking for.
An E2E can be a challenge or a tour and a thousand points between, they're all bike rides and it's for the rider to say whether it was a good one or not.

I had an odd experience on Saturday, I rode a 200km ride back to Derby from Stratford via a bit of a loop. I plotted it on the PC and loaded it to Garmin, had a really good day, nice bit of sunshine and pleasant rolling scenery. Then when it got dark I became a bit disorientated, I couldn't remember where I'd plotted the route or how far along it and didn't know where I was. It was interesting, knowing I was on route but not what the route was, all about what I could see in front of me.

[landsurfer]

Jules has no problem setting up 5-6 small tents each night and stowing sleeping bags in each etc .... but we don't want to be arriving at site after 70 miles in the rain and than have to put up a trailer tent ....

[Mick F]

MickF is a veteran of several E2Es, always the same route, that would drive me nuts

I see your point here.

However, I'm a "veteran" of living, travelling, and working up and down the country. Yes, mainly in the western side.

I know geographically where I am from the West Country, through the West Midlands, up through Lancashire and Cumberland and Westmorland, into southern Scotland, Edinburgh as well as Glasgow, Perth and the A9, the A82 and Lomondside to Inverness, and all of the North.

Cycling?
Yes, I've done it all too, but mainly I know the place from being there.

This is exactly my point.
The folk coming through, don't - generally - know where they are.

Even if I wasn't a cyclist, I would still know where I was.
They - generally - don't.

[PH]

This is exactly my point.
The folk coming through, don't - generally - know where they are.

My point is:
So what?

[landsurfer]

Play nicely .......

[landsurfer]

Thanks Graham ... this post is to get a group of like minded souls together for a LEJOG in June 2018.
And to have the flattest, easiest route we can complete in 12 days cycling.
Support is being built up, riders are coming forward and we hope to make this a serious but enjoyable target for us all .
oldmanonabike and myself will take the lead on arranging stuff but we rely on all your experienced input to assist us ..
The fair Jules has offered to provide vehicle support and sort out camping each evening ....

[Mick F]

Excellent.
Thirteen days is good ................ and good luck.

[Mick F]

This is exactly my point.
The folk coming through, don't - generally - know where they are.

My point is:
So what?

The whole point in doing an End2End, is that you are doing and end to end of the whole country, and that you need to know where you are.

I suppose you can travel along the roads and follow a route - or the signposts - and not know anything about where you actually are at any one time, but IMHO, that's a sad state to be in.

[landsurfer]

The whole point in doing an End2End, is that you are doing and end to end of the whole country, and that you need to know where you are. I suppose you can travel along the roads and follow a route - or the signposts - and not know anything about where you actually are at any one time, but IMHO, that's a sad state to be in.

Totally agree Mick F ... its not just about head down cycling, its about appreciating the places you travel through .. you may have done the same route 3 times but i'm sure you saw different aspects every time ...

[PH]

The whole point in doing an End2End, is that you are doing and end to end of the whole country, and that you need to know where you are.

Oh dear, I don't want to fall out with you, I have a lot of respect both for your rides and the help you give so many people navigating through Cornwall.
But the point of an E2E is entirely up to the rider and no one else.
My last one was a tour, my companion and myself, researched places we'd like to visit, towns we'd like to stay in and roads we wanted to ride.
My next one will be a challenge, I won't be visiting anywhere, I'll stay wherever happens to be in the right place for each days ride and I'll choose roads that fit in with the objective.