Pannier security

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Cunobelin
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Cunobelin » 11 Mar 2017, 12:34pm

Falco wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:It is quick convenient and for cafe stops, loo stops, visiting historic sites or churches all you really need


I can't find a high street shop in London that has the PacSafe in stock and examine it close up, so your feedback is appreciated. It's difficult gauging which size I should go for, the 35L or 55L. I'd like to put it inside the panniers to see how it fits before purchasing them.

Also, I can't find a shop that has the Ortleib Pro Plus's in stock either. I'm crossing London today so I'll pop in to as many bikes shops as possible on route and get the retailer's opinions.

At the moment, if I end up having to buy them online I'll go for the 55L PacSafe with the Ortleib Pro Plus bags. I'll report back and provide photos if anyone's interested?


My rear is a 120l version

bogmyrtle
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Re: Pannier security

Postby bogmyrtle » 11 Mar 2017, 6:50pm

My rear is a 120l version

Presumably you are still talking pannier here. :D
A bike does more miles to the banana than a Porsche.

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trilathon
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Re: Pannier security

Postby trilathon » 16 Mar 2017, 2:25pm

I know I worried about this sort of thing on my first tour 20 years ago and even had some mini padlocks with the ortlieb security closures to ease my worries and waste my time.

I never used them again, although I ensure my bike is either within sight, hidden or stored somewhere safe by the kind folk I ask and reveal my dilemma to I've never been bothered by any type of crime whilst cyclocamping and long may it continue. Occasionally it's been locked up whilst I've speedily visited a museum.

I've only once heard of a cycle tourist being targeted for theft ( other than African guerrillas or latin America ), and that was in Amsterdam central, a hotbed of chancers and the stupefied unwary. Just like the fact a bicycle makes one invisible to many UK motorists, so in balance does a touring outfit not register on the radar of most crooks and unlocks the doors of kindness globally
Searching for, and camping in, places of antiquity and wild beauty. Former ironman, 3PCX, Rough Stuff Fellowship, fell runner, regional time trial champion and 20 odd years of cyclo camping around Europe.

Warin61
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Warin61 » 27 Mar 2017, 11:04am

Ship chandlers have stainless rigging stuff of a similar gauge as the Pacsafe stuff.. and they have the fittings and tools too .. so you can custom make what you want.
Personally a nylon ripstop cover that I can throw over the entire bike with panniers functions well - keeps the overnight rain off (dry saddle in the morning) and what they cannot see they generally leave alone. Much lighter than the Packsafe type stuff.

Psamathe
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Psamathe » 27 Mar 2017, 11:08am

Warin61 wrote:Ship chandlers have stainless rigging stuff of a similar gauge as the Pacsafe stuff.. and they have the fittings and tools too .. so you can custom make what you want....

Plus you can get the stainless wire put through a plastic tube if you want (to protect paintwork, etc.) before they put the loops on the end. Chandlers will generally make it us there and then (i.e. walk-in ask for what you what, they'll cut the wire, swage on the ends and a few minutes later you walk out with the custom cables.

I'm sure they'll happily make all sorts of weird ones as well (e.g. Y-cables if that is best for your needs).

Ian

Falco
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Falco » 30 Mar 2017, 6:13am

I'd not heard of a 'ship chandler' before. After a quick google, I can see what you mean about a custom build.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Cunobelin » 30 Mar 2017, 6:24am

bogmyrtle wrote:
My rear is a 120l version[/quote]
Presumably you are still talking pannier here. :D[/quote]


No - the PACSAFE

Falco
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Falco » 30 Mar 2017, 7:03am

Since making the original post, and doing a lot of research, I finally have a plan and all my equipment.

The Ortlieb Back-Rooler Pro Plus bags are very good. The front compartment is useful and they are light, well made and hold quite a bit (70L).

I've installed the Ortlieb QL2 Anti Theft Device on each bag. This is a wire with a loop that can be pulled out from inside the QL2 fixings (the wire can be pushed back into the fixings so only the loop part remains poking out). They are the same thickness as my brake and gear cables and don't really fill me with much confidence. But as its purpose is only as a deterrent to a passer-by then I suppose they will be fine.

I was not sure about which size to go for, but I finally bought the PacSafe 55. It's just tall enough to fit depth-wise into the bags with the roll top full closed. The mesh expands out to the sides quite a way. It holds all my camping equipment. I've decided to only secure that one bag. I'll put clothes, food and water in the other unsecured bag. It won't be a disaster if they're stolen. If anyone has the PacSafe 80, could you say how tall it is, the dimensions on the website only specify its size when in its carry holder. It would be good to have a slightly taller mesh.

I can't have front panniers due to carbon fibre front fork, and I don't like the feel of a handlebar bag, so I went for a Overboard Pro-Sports Waterproof Backpack. It has a roll-top waterproof design and holds 30L. I'll put all my valuables in there and strap it over the top of my panniers. When I want to leave the bike and go into a shop I'll take the backpack and leave the panniers locked to the bike.

In total I have 100 litres. That seems more than enough and will provide storage space for any items I pick up on the tour to bring home. I'm going to test the set up at the start of April with a few days cycling around central England. I'll report back any issues I find in the field (so to say). I can provide photos if anyone's interested.

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Sweep
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Sweep » 31 Mar 2017, 8:40pm

look forward to hearing how you get on with those panniers and how the bike handles with them - they surely are seriously big.
Sweep

Falco
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Falco » 8 Apr 2017, 8:47am

I did a four day camping/cycling route to test the equipment. I spend most of the time in the countryside but visited Oxford for a day.

The Ortlieb bags were filled to capacity with all my camping equipment, clothes, washing items and tools. I used packing organisers for storage management, as the Ortlieb bags only have a very small inner pocket. This worked really well and I never had to hunt for anything. The panniers' outer mesh pocket was useful for quick access/storage. The build quality is excellent. Everything seems sturdy and I never worried about ripping or tearing anything when picking them up or moving them around. When the inside of a bag got wet it was quick and easy to remove the water (as the bags are waterproof on the inside as well as the outside). Even when full, the bags strap down to a smooth compact shape without parts sticking out. I'm very pleased with the Ortlieb Pro Plus.

All that was left to carry was my valuables. I brought an Anker PowerCore power pack for charging, several cables, a small laptop, headlight, a very portable camping chair and other misc tech and general items (not to mention keys and wallet). These only filled my Overboard bag half full and I was able to use the extra space for daily items like food and water. When off the bike, it was easy to carry the Overboard bag on my back and both panniers in one hand, so I put the PacSafe mesh in it's little bag and didn't use it after the second day. It was good to know I had it if I needed it but usually I'd set up the tent at the campsite, stow the panniers inside and take the Overboard valuables bag with me around the local area. That worked well.

So, a very positive trial run. Thanks for all the suggestions!

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foxyrider
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Re: Pannier security

Postby foxyrider » 8 Apr 2017, 9:01am

You've now discovered why the majority of us don't fret over pannier security!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Ivor Tingting
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Re: Pannier security

Postby Ivor Tingting » 11 Apr 2017, 10:51pm

If you are that worried about theft of your gear then at a supermarket just take the panniers off the bike as this is easy takes seconds and put them in a big trolley and take them with you inside. You will of course have to lock your bike up as without all the bags on it, it would be pretty tasty for an opportunist thief to nick. Or alternatively leave it in a very prominent place with all your gear on it i.e. next to security or a chugger, there are always chuggers at the entrances to big supermarkets, but do take your valuables in your bar bag, then go and do your shopping without worrying. I would be in awe of anyone able to ride my fully loaded bike away quickly and without falling over as if you have never ridden a laden touring bike it can be a bit of a shock the first time how heavy they can be.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

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foxyrider
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Re: Pannier security

Postby foxyrider » 12 Apr 2017, 10:09am

Ivor Tingting wrote:If you are that worried about theft of your gear then at a supermarket just take the panniers off the bike as this is easy takes seconds and put them in a big trolley and take them with you inside. You will of course have to lock your bike up as without all the bags on it, it would be pretty tasty for an opportunist thief to nick. Or alternatively leave it in a very prominent place with all your gear on it i.e. next to security or a chugger, there are always chuggers at the entrances to big supermarkets, but do take your valuables in your bar bag, then go and do your shopping without worrying. I would be in awe of anyone able to ride my fully loaded bike away quickly and without falling over as if you have never ridden a laden touring bike it can be a bit of a shock the first time how heavy they can be.


Agree with all that but the use of full SPD or other non platform pedal systems will be a deterrent too. Thieves like easy, so if you have pedals where specific shoes are needed you lower the desirability quotient. Have heard of some commuters using demountable pedals which they remove at the point of locking - no pedals and the thief can't ride off!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

tommydog
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pannier - anti theft solutions?

Postby tommydog » 28 Jan 2018, 10:17pm

I am about to plan some long distance touring and am examining pannier options. One thing that bothers me, is that most modern panniers are designed to clip on and off in a matter of seconds. In fact my friend had some empty Ortlieb panniers recently stolen when he parked his bike to go in a shop for 5 minutes. He even had them secured with the Ortlieb lock that they sell, but the thieves cut through it. A similar thing happened with my partners Brompton bag.

In an ideal world, I would like something with a hard shell that I permanently bolt to a rack (with security bolts). Granted they can start cutting things, but if they physically damage the panniers then it defeats the object of stealing them.

After some research I came across bike bins which looked perfect for my needs, but it says on their website they they have ceased production. Does anyone have any other suggestions? I wonder if you can get cloth panniers which have a bike rack frame physically sowed into them (bit like old fashioned rucksacks)?

I know I could take my panniers with me every time I leave the bike, but I really don't fancy lugging so much stuff about. It kind of takes the enjoyment out things.

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andrew_s
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Re: pannier - anti theft solutions?

Postby andrew_s » 29 Jan 2018, 12:38pm

You could look at a Pacsafe
These are wire nets designed to attach an unattended backpack to something, and stop it being either walked off with or slit open.
One of the bigger ones should enclose both panniers and link them to the bike.

It seems that Mr BikeBins has gone off cycling.
He got the idea for BikeBins on a trans-Siberia ride to Vladivostok, so it's quite likely that it's round the world this time. Could be a couple of years.