2017 TdeF (spoilers post-highlights please)

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
Postboxer
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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby Postboxer » 4 Jul 2017, 6:44pm

Chaotic finish today, well worth watching the highlights for as there'll be more news than there was at the end of the race, and hopefully more analysis of certain 'incidents'.

Brucey
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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby Brucey » 4 Jul 2017, 8:05pm

was the (final) decision a bit harsh or just right? Should the other fella who didn't keep to his line have been penalised also...?

Re discs; Boardman's piece yesterday on brakes wasn't (despite singling out CP brakes for criticism despite the fact that they were one of the better systems BITD... :roll: ) the worst I have seen but

a) he surely has a vested interest in flogging lots of bikes (with disc brakes) so may be prejudiced...?
and
b) he previewed the finish today and (surprise surprise) he was riding one of his own brand bikes. No discs!

So one has to assume that whilst he knows which side of his bread is buttered, he might not like the taste himself....?

cheers
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thirdcrank
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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby thirdcrank » 4 Jul 2017, 8:22pm

https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-rou ... ute/815847

Here's L'Equipe on the subject. (I think they do an English version but I can't find it.) Not a word in favour of the rider who's going home. (I'm avoiding names so as not to spoil it, but these days, is there anybody who doesn't see the results on the main news whether they want to or not?)

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TrevA
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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby TrevA » 4 Jul 2017, 9:34pm

thirdcrank wrote:https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Peter-sagan-exclu-du-tour-de-france-apres-avoir-provoque-une-chute/815847

Here's L'Equipe on the subject. (I think they do an English version but I can't find it.) Not a word in favour of the rider who's going home. (I'm avoiding names so as not to spoil it, but these days, is there anybody who doesn't see the results on the main news whether they want to or not?)


The photo in L'Equipe is pretty damning. The more I see of the incident, the more I agree with the course of action taken.

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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby rjb » 4 Jul 2017, 10:17pm

I thought the final outcome was harsh. If the original penalty had stood it would have been a wake up call to everyone to hold their line. After all is said and done a sprint is often referred to as "Elbows Out". :lol:
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Postboxer
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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby Postboxer » 4 Jul 2017, 10:33pm

It's gone 10pm, the highlights have been on, is anyone going to be reading this thread who doesn't want to know the results? Shall we add a spoiler warning to the heading, perhaps also with an agreed time after which we can fully discuss it? Either we can discuss things as soon as they happen on the live coverage, or as soon as they happen on the 7pm highlights, or as soon as the highlights finish?

I hope Cav makes a miraculous full recovery overnight but he didn't seem too optimistic, it's a real shame after the year he's had, he was going well and I was hoping he'd be getting better throughout the race. It may well be another case of what might have been.

At least the Green Jersey competition might be a bit more interesting now.

I'm not sure about the punishment, I think maybe it's worse forcing someone across into the barriers compared to swerving across the centre of the road where other riders have somewhere to go.

Roger Hammond on twitter here -

https://twitter.com/rog10/status/882275129400676352

is also alleging that Sagan caused the other crash near the end too, presumably the one that took Geraint Thomas down again, I'm getting nervous already.

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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby Bonefishblues » 4 Jul 2017, 11:13pm

Cav is oot, it's been confirmed.

Brucey
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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby Brucey » 5 Jul 2017, 10:18am

TrevA wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Peter-sagan-exclu-du-tour-de-france-apres-avoir-provoque-une-chute/815847<br abp="486"><br abp="487">Here's L'Equipe on the subject.....
The photo in L'Equipe is pretty damning. The more I see of the incident, the more I agree with the course of action taken.


Image

yup. I agree that the proximity of the barriers made this completely unacceptable. However the lad that won the stage (Demare) didn't hold his line either, and pretty well took out the front wheel of Bouhani, who came within a hair's breadth of coming down. If he had come down there would have been a bigger prang for sure. The home crowd are obviously chuffed to bits that they have a decent home-grown sprinter now, but they are not blind to the fact that Demare came within a hair's breadth of being the bad guy rather than winning the stage, as the comment here suggests

https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Article/Arnaud-demare-le-monsieur-plus/815919

As one of the commentators suggested, (barrier proximity aside) they appear to have focused on the consequences rather than the actions per se when determining the penalties.

Rotten luck for Cav; he's not having a good year (despite being almost 100% spot on in his read of the sprint).... who knows how many more chances he will have?

cheers
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thirdcrank
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Re: 2017 TdeF (spoilers post-highlights please)

Postby thirdcrank » 5 Jul 2017, 10:44am

There seem to be two different issues here.

The first is that the bunch sprints at the end of flattish stages are becoming increasingly spectacular ( = dangerous) as more riders have a reason to be up there at the front and more have the strength to do so. The relatively recent phenomenon of the sprint lead-out (Erik Zabel?) seems to have had its day in that there isn't room for sprint trains for all the sprinters wanting to win the stage and for all the GC contenders trying to avoid time losses as the peloton splits in the last few hundred metres. So, as well as tinkering with the timing rules, there's something to be said for ensuring the best behaviour from riders.

The second is that pro cycling is a spectator sport which has to appeal to spectators. I had assumed that this year's route was intended to benefit riders like Sagan who can climb well enough to get over mountains but are unlikely to win a mountain-top finish. At the purely commercial level, it's a big step to send the World Champion home, especially this one, who wasn't a lucky winner but completely worthy of the jersey. The rest of the race is likely to be the poorer in his absence. (Ditto the absence of Cav, of course.)

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Spinners
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Re: 2017 TdeF (spoilers post-highlights please)

Postby Spinners » 5 Jul 2017, 1:13pm

Slightly harsh on Sagan but Cav was extremely calm and measured with his words afterwards. Great sportsmanship by Cav and I'm sorry to see him out of the TdF.

I can't quite see Rooney & Co. being quite so diplomatic...
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Re: 2017 TdeF (spoilers post-highlights please)

Postby cycleruk » 5 Jul 2017, 7:28pm

Didn't see it myself but others today were saying that Sagan looked to have caused the previous crash that brought down Geraint on the way in to the finish ?
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Re: 2017 TdeF (spoilers post-highlights please)

Postby Brucey » 5 Jul 2017, 10:20pm

Sagan went from hero to villain in a day... such is the world of cycling.... still, on the plus side there is going to be a proper scrap for the green jersey now.

Fabio Aru...? Flash in the pan or genuine GC contender?

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Re: 2017 TdeF

Postby mjr » 5 Jul 2017, 11:10pm

Brucey wrote:However the lad that won the stage (Demare) didn't hold his line either, and pretty well took out the front wheel of Bouhani, who came within a hair's breadth of coming down.

I see what you mean in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXwZczGqWls but the whole pinball game was kicked off by Griepel trying to take Kristoff's wheel by shunting Bouhanni (pictured - the two red riders colliding) after the Lotto Soudal lead-out had finished too early. Bouhanni then wobbled, prompting Demare to pass on his right and Sagan trying to take Demare's wheel from and colliding with Cav... arguably Griepel and Demare should both be going home now too, as well as Sagan.
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Re: 2017 TdeF (spoilers post-highlights please)

Postby TrevA » 9 Jul 2017, 5:00pm

Re the Cav crash, I've seen video on Twitter that suggests that it was Cavs brake lever that knocked Sagans elbow and caused it to flick out. I think Cav went for a gap that wasn't really there.

More fireworks on today's stage but I won't say anymore for the moment.

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Re: 2017 TdeF (spoilers post-highlights please)

Postby mig » 9 Jul 2017, 9:49pm

how long before the day of the race typically are new surfaces put down on tour routes?