Tubeless Kojak

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InSearchofSunrise
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Joined: 20 Jul 2017, 2:54pm

Tubeless Kojak

Postby InSearchofSunrise » 7 Aug 2017, 8:35am

I'll assume that someone knows this pain already, I've been trying to convince a 559 Kojak to run tubeless for over a month with Stans, lately tried Orange as well.

It spent a few nights on each side, and now I've been riding it every day, but it needs to be pumped every day, sometimes twice (40-50 psi).

Anyone had any success doing this?

Marathon on the rear had no such problems, never had a single problem with it.

Barry and Janet wil
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby Barry and Janet wil » 7 Aug 2017, 10:47am

InSearchofSunrise wrote:I'll assume that someone knows this pain already, I've been trying to convince a 559 Kojak to run tubeless for over a month with Stans, lately tried Orange as well.

It spent a few nights on each side, and now I've been riding it every day, but it needs to be pumped every day, sometimes twice (40-50 psi).

Anyone had any success doing this?

Marathon on the rear had no such problems, never had a single problem with it.
Have you maybe got a rim-tape issue? The sealant is more difficult to stay on it as centrifugal force throws it off and onto the tyre. Just guessing.

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Gattonero
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby Gattonero » 7 Aug 2017, 10:48am

I won't recommend this.

The Schwalbe Kojak is not a tubeless tyre.
And it's a tyre that goes at high pressure, if burps the consequences may be bad for you and other people on the road.

There's plenty of Schwalbe tyre models, in fact is arguably the brand that offers the most comprehensive choice of threads, carcass types and sizes. And they're making several proper Tubeless tyres, much better than what they used to be years ago.
No reason to botch something that doesn't work well (in fact you have to pump them often) and especially spending money in sealant and valves for a product that is not meant to be used that way.

It is ok to try at home, if one has already all the gear, but I can't see the reason to spend time and money in something that won't work.
Fit a tube, wear out the tyres, then buy some Pro Ones or similar
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

InSearchofSunrise
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby InSearchofSunrise » 7 Aug 2017, 12:14pm

Barry and Janet wil wrote:Have you maybe got a rim-tape issue? The sealant is more difficult to stay on it as centrifugal force throws it off and onto the tyre. Just guessing.


It is possible I'm sure, But soap tests and such have pretty consistently shown the sidewalls bleeding air at best, and pin-holing at worst.

Forgot my pump at home when I left for work this morning, so I'm desperately hoping that today is one of the rare days that it doesn't need pumping before the commute home.


I can't seem to find anything other than these two tires that work for this size (26x1.35)

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Gattonero
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby Gattonero » 7 Aug 2017, 12:40pm

The 26" is slowly becoming less and less attractive for the Mtb world, no surprise if there's not many tubeless-compatible road tyres in this size.
Since your are proper 26", not 650B as I thought and ProOne's are available, the only proper 26" road tubeless tyre I know is the Compass Naches Pass

https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/compo ... ches-pass/
Image

Not cheap, but they have a very good reputation.
If not willing to go for such an expense, there's no alternative I can see.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

InSearchofSunrise
Posts: 24
Joined: 20 Jul 2017, 2:54pm

Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby InSearchofSunrise » 7 Aug 2017, 12:51pm

They do look good, but I don't think I could make the extra half inch of tire fit

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Gattonero
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby Gattonero » 7 Aug 2017, 2:00pm

What bike is it, that a 26"x1.8 won't fit?
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

InSearchofSunrise
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Joined: 20 Jul 2017, 2:54pm

Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby InSearchofSunrise » 7 Aug 2017, 2:03pm

It's a strange custom build that my brother had made for touring and towing big trailers.
Already having issues getting the canti's to not rub the tires.

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Gattonero
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby Gattonero » 7 Aug 2017, 4:06pm

Uh-oh... sounds like chain and seastays were not designed properly? What's the spacing of the canti sutds on the frame?
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

InSearchofSunrise
Posts: 24
Joined: 20 Jul 2017, 2:54pm

Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby InSearchofSunrise » 7 Aug 2017, 4:14pm

Haven't got a clue. This thing showed up on my doorstep in a basically a paper bag from Canada, not in good shape, and I've never seen a good half of the parts before. Used to road bikes and pretty vanilla MTB. This is another beast entirely, but I'm getting there.

Part of the problem is the horizontal dropouts, which he seemed to think was a great idea, but I'm not really sold on how that works with the Rohloff, or the cantilevers (Paul). Add pitlocks to that and it's a bit of a headscratcher.

The Pauls with Koolstop thinlines (my first clue that something was a bit fishy here) works, and gives a fair amount of adjustment, but a good half of the dropout isn't usable because the brakes don't line up if the wheel is too far forward or back.

tim_f
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby tim_f » 7 Aug 2017, 5:54pm

Have you tried giving the inside of the tires a very thorough clean to get any production residual oil off (which may stop the latex coating the tire) and then 'painting' sealant on the inside of the tires with a brush, then mount the tires with more sealant in a puddle?

Continental suggest this procedure in the 'how to' video fro their Revo sealant.

Brucey
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby Brucey » 7 Aug 2017, 6:17pm

I'd suggest fitting inner tubes.

FWIW anytime you have horizontal dropouts and rim brakes, you need to be careful about chain length. Using a half-link in a new chain can allow the wheel to be positioned in increments of 1/4" in the dropouts (with any given chainring/sprocket) and if you are prepared to fit a +1T chainring as necessary the wheel can be positioned in increments of 1/8".

The chain can be allowed to wear about 1/2" before it should be ditched, and this requires the wheel to move 1/4".
If the seatstays are set at about 45 degrees, this means the brake blocks will have to move about 8mm in the brake arms as the chain wears.

So basically it is a question of simply setting the chain length so that the brake blocks are in the top of the slots when the chain is new; that way you will have enough adjustment available as the chain wears, even without messing about with half-links and odd-size chainrings as the chain wears.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mattsccm
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby mattsccm » 7 Aug 2017, 6:24pm

Some tyres just have sidewalls that are porous and only, if at all, eons of soaking in tyre sealant works. I assume that they are folding tyres as wide beads virtually never work.
Not saying that this forum won't have the answer but asking on the STW (theoretically a MTB forum) forum will provoke millions of suggestions. Some maybe helpful!

InSearchofSunrise
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Joined: 20 Jul 2017, 2:54pm

Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby InSearchofSunrise » 7 Aug 2017, 6:44pm

tim_f wrote:Have you tried giving the inside of the tires a very thorough clean to get any production residual oil off (which may stop the latex coating the tire) and then 'painting' sealant on the inside of the tires with a brush, then mount the tires with more sealant in a puddle?

Continental suggest this procedure in the 'how to' video for their Revo sealant.


Have to do a teardown and ship back home in a week, so maybe I'll suffer through a bit longer and try that on the other side of the pond. Parts are cheaper there as well, so that's helpful.

Brucey wrote:I'd suggest fitting inner tubes.

FWIW anytime you have horizontal dropouts and rim brakes, you need to be careful about chain length. Using a half-link in a new chain can allow the wheel to be positioned in increments of 1/4" in the dropouts (with any given chainring/sprocket) and if you are prepared to fit a +1T chainring as necessary the wheel can be positioned in increments of 1/8".

The chain can be allowed to wear about 1/2" before it should be ditched, and this requires the wheel to move 1/4".
If the seatstays are set at about 45 degrees, this means the brake blocks will have to move about 8mm in the brake arms as the chain wears.

So basically it is a question of simply setting the chain length so that the brake blocks are in the top of the slots when the chain is new; that way you will have enough adjustment available as the chain wears, even without messing about with half-links and odd-size chainrings as the chain wears.

cheers



Can't really explain why I just really hate tubes. I'd rather lose the slick and fit another Marathon. And if the above doesn't work I may do just that.

mattsccm wrote:Some tyres just have sidewalls that are porous and only, if at all, eons of soaking in tyre sealant works. I assume that they are folding tyres as wide beads virtually never work.
Not saying that this forum won't have the answer but asking on the STW (theoretically a MTB forum) forum will provoke millions of suggestions. Some maybe helpful!


I actually wasn't paying attention when I ordered it and did get a wire, which I didn't want. It was a ballache, but that part did work eventually.

Brucey
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Re: Tubeless Kojak

Postby Brucey » 7 Aug 2017, 8:14pm

InSearchofSunrise wrote: ....Can't really explain why I just really hate tubes. I'd rather lose the slick and fit another Marathon. And if the above doesn't work I may do just that....


each to his own and all that, but crikey, you must have a strong affliction if (instead of a tube inside a nice tyre) you prefer a tyre that is comparable in ride quality to one made of finely chiselled mahogany.... :shock: :shock:

I am not that keen on tubeless TBH, even less keen on conversions, and I can explain why.... :wink:

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~