CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Steady rider
Posts: 2169
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Steady rider » 24 Sep 2017, 7:14pm

A little early perhaps to consider AGM motions for 2018.

Each member is now limited to propose two motions.

A few issues may be worth discussing.

Can CTC consider how insurance could be provided to all members when cycling in any country. Members are covered by insurance for cycling in the UK. I would like to see if or how this could be extended to cover all countries.
Details of what would be involved, how simple could it be made, could costs be adsorbed?

The government is currently having a review of the cycling laws and cycling safety issues. Issues arise on a regular basis that could be considered in an annual conference on cycling safety. Should Cycling UK provide an annual conference either alone or in combination with others? e.g. http://icsc2017.ucdavis.edu/

Highway provisions are generally left in the hands of the local highway authority. Are extra safeguards required to try and ensure that the best standards and practise prevail? As an example, a new housing estate with nearly 200 houses are being built near me, guidance recommends 20 mph limits but the local engineers did not wish to have 20 mph limits, so 30 mph limits in place.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13737
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby gaz » 24 Sep 2017, 7:44pm

Steady rider wrote:Can CTC consider how insurance could be provided to all members when cycling in any country. Members are covered by insurance for cycling in the UK. I would like to see if or how this could be extended to cover all countries.

The current summary of the Members' Third Party Liability Cover states:
Cover is provided for injury or damage caused by you to a third party while you are cycling anywhere in the world, except the USA and Canada

I do not know for certain why those countries are excluded, but I expect it is because medical bills can be especially high. To cover any increased risk there will necessarily be an increased premium. Not so long ago, IIRC, it was suggested that an increase in insurance premiums had led to a need for redundancies. Be careful what you wish for.

There are other terms and conditions associated with the policy, e.g. cover is only provided to members normally resident in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands.

Please note that gaz is not FCA regulated and cannot assess individual needs for insurance. You will not receive advice or recommendations from gaz about them. Please direct your queries to your chosen insurance provider, who may be either vaguely reassuring or reassuringly vague in their response (wonderful phrase, my thanks to mjr for providing it on another thread). Posted on a forum that contains track nuts and cannot be guaranteed track nut free. Hand wash only. Do not iron.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

Steady rider
Posts: 2169
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Steady rider » 25 Sep 2017, 9:37am

Thanks Gaz for the link.

It only covers for third party claims. A friend fell off in Switzerland and broke his leg, cost him £6000 in medical expenses. Perhaps they could look into the details and see if more benefits could be provided. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/holi ... wages.html

I assume the USA and perhaps Canada have about double the costs compared to elsewhere. Their system seems to be a problem in trying to provide health care for poorer people.

PH
Posts: 7576
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby PH » 25 Sep 2017, 11:56am

Why would the membership want to subsidise peoples medical insurance? They can buy their own as part of any holiday or tour.
I see it as a complete none starter, waste of a motion and the time to cost and respond to it.

Psamathe
Posts: 10587
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Psamathe » 25 Sep 2017, 12:19pm

PH wrote:Why would the membership want to subsidise peoples medical insurance? They can buy their own as part of any holiday or tour.
I see it as a complete none starter, waste of a motion and the time to cost and respond to it.

Whilst it does not affect me (not a member) I agree that subsidising what most see as a form of holiday or travel insurance would seem a bit weird. I might even rejoin if they did that.

Steady rider wrote:.....
It only covers for third party claims. A friend fell off in Switzerland and broke his leg, cost him £6000 in medical expenses. Perhaps they could look into the details and see if more benefits could be provided.....

You'd need to consider what "more benefits" would be needed. In practice it would either need to be a complete travel policy or nothing because insurance claims become somewhat more complex when claiming for something covered by two (or more) policies (all insurance companies need to get involved, probably with different limits ..... the claimant does not get to decide which policy (s)he will claim on). And to start adding benefits that are already covered by travel policies would in reality add nothing but would complicate any claim.

Ian

Steady rider
Posts: 2169
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Steady rider » 25 Sep 2017, 12:41pm

Why would the membership want to subsidise peoples medical insurance? They can buy their own as part of any holiday or tour.
I see it as a complete none starter, waste of a motion and the time to cost and respond to it.


CTC already covers members for third party insurance in most parts of the world. It could depend on actual costs to see if worth looking for wider option, they may be able to provide extra insurance for members who select to pay a premium, at a lower cost to members them buying their own separate insurance.

Nationwide building society in their FlexiPlus account provides worldwide family insurance as part of the account.

The original suggestion was;
Can CTC consider how insurance could be provided to all members when cycling in any country. Members are covered by insurance for cycling in the UK. I would like to see if or how this could be extended to cover all countries.
Details of what would be involved, how simple could it be made, could costs be adsorbed?


So really it was looking for the CTC to examine the issue. An AMG motion could be simply to ask them to examine and report back on suggestions that may benefit members, with some examples. They would need to do a quick assessment and publish their findings. If they did not consider it feasible, they would probably say so before a motion was submitted, so a motion may not reach the agenda.

AndyK
Posts: 801
Joined: 17 Aug 2007, 2:08pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby AndyK » 25 Sep 2017, 12:46pm

Members are already entitled to a 10% discount on Cycling UK's Cyclecover travel insurance. Whether that represents good value or not I don't know, but it is a member benefit. I'm not sure those of us who don't regularly go cycling in the US would want to subsidise those who do.

You do seem to be confusing third party cover (which, as Gaz points out, members already have for travel worldwide except for US & Canada) with personal medical cover (which doesn't come as part of membership at all, whether you're in the UK or abroad).

Incidentally my guess is that the higher premiums for American travel have as much to do with US citizens' reputed willingness to sue for large amounts of money as they do with medical costs. As someone who runs cycle tours in the UK, I know that my liability insurance underwriters take a close interest in how many Americans I expect to have as guests.

Psamathe
Posts: 10587
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Psamathe » 25 Sep 2017, 12:53pm

Steady rider wrote:.....
The original suggestion was;
Can CTC consider how insurance could be provided to all members when cycling in any country. Members are covered by insurance for cycling in the UK. I would like to see if or how this could be extended to cover all countries.
Details of what would be involved, how simple could it be made, could costs be adsorbed?


So really it was looking for the CTC to examine the issue. An AMG motion could be simply to ask them to examine and report back on suggestions that may benefit members, with some examples. They would need to do a quick assessment and publish their findings. If they did not consider it feasible, they would probably say so before a motion was submitted, so a motion may not reach the agenda.

I thought I remembered from some discussion about the CTC (within the last few years on this forum) that as a charity the "member benefits" are limited and were previously (some commented) too high for a charity. My recollection was that a charity gets it's tax benefits because it provides good works and is not just a mechanism to benefit its membership. and I seem to remember people suggesting that the current level of member benefits in relation to the membership fee was already considered high.

I mention only because it may be that the CTC/CUK need to focus expenditure away from membership benefits for reasons related to its charitable status.

But I'm going from memory and I'm sure those making such comments are still active and will repeat them if relevant.

Ian

Steady rider
Posts: 2169
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Steady rider » 25 Sep 2017, 1:10pm

Thanks again for all that info. I have cycles a few times in the USA, mainly with insurance cover. With Nationwide being able to include world wide cover I wonder if it could be provided by Cycling UK, if the pricing was too high it would be a non-starter I expect, but it may be worth looking into.

it may be possible to provide insurance for any member of the public when cycling, that would avoid members/benefit issues.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13737
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby gaz » 25 Sep 2017, 7:43pm

Steady rider wrote:it may be possible to provide insurance for any member of the public when cycling, that would avoid members/benefit issues.

The current cost to Cycling UK of the third party cover as a Member benefit is based on an estimate of the number of members for the coming year and the associated risk they represent to the insurer. The Trustees will not consider extending cover to 65.64 million people in the UK population. It is a ridiculous notion.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

Steady rider
Posts: 2169
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Steady rider » 25 Sep 2017, 8:03pm

I was thinking about offering cyclist accident cover, for a fee to anyone who wanted it. Assuming 10% cycle, 6.5 million people, assume 1% try the offer or some give it as a gift voucher, or shops offer it in addition, when someone is buying a bike. One percent of 6.5 million is 65000, at say £10, equals £650,000. So one question would be if they wanted to provide insurance for 65000 cyclists, how much would they be charged? The number crunchers would need to look over the idea. It may not be practical or it may work in some way. Cycling UK having access to 65000 potentially new full paid members could also be useful. Just an idea to consider.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13737
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby gaz » 25 Sep 2017, 8:10pm

Steady rider wrote:Cycling UK having access to 65000 potentially new full paid members could also be useful. Just an idea to consider.

Or Cycling UK loses umpteen thousand Members who currently pay their subscription on the basis of gaining third party insurance as part of a package the rest of which they're not really interested in.

If anything I could see more mileage in offering a Membership category without insurance at a reduced price.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

Steady rider
Posts: 2169
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Steady rider » 25 Sep 2017, 8:28pm

http://www.cyclinguk.org/join
Admittedly some may prefer a cheap insurance cover but many may prefer the full package. I think if it was feasible, the total number associated with the club would be likely to be higher. It could be offered to new associate members who had not been a member for X years. If it was trialed for say 2 years - via either cycle training / big bike or any other avenues available, it may give some idea if this approach had any future. Provided risks and costs were strictly controlled, after 2 years they would have a good idea if it was worthwhile long term. They could pull the plug on it at any time if it caused unseen problems.

On reflection, the first suggestion about insurance aspects, may not have sufficient merit as a stand alone issue, so I would not try to take this forward. It does not lead directly to more people cycling, a major drawback. Time consuming on paperwork, not of direct benefit to safer cycling. If it was in combination with other aspects to lead to more cycling it may be worth considering at some stage.

Steady rider
Posts: 2169
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Steady rider » 21 Dec 2017, 8:52pm

Does anyone know where the AGM will be in 2018?

User avatar
Paulatic
Posts: 4205
Joined: 2 Feb 2014, 1:03pm
Location: 24 Hours from Lands End

Re: CTC AGM possible motions for 2018

Postby Paulatic » 21 Dec 2017, 9:20pm

Steady rider wrote:Does anyone know where the AGM will be in 2018?

To be confirmed
https://www.cyclinguk.org/agm
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/