Canoe

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kwackers
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Re: Canoe

Postby kwackers » 1 Dec 2017, 2:28pm

Psamathe wrote:And you need to consider the budget carefully. Apart from the boat itself, paddles are surprisingly pricey (I got descent kayak paddles @£250), buoyancy aid, insurance, and you need a license for most waterways (though most are included in the BCU membership @£40+ a year). I don't mean to discourage as I love it but I'm also lucky in having loads of great water moderately nearby.

Ian

I'm not discouraged, so far the responses have made me feel fairly positive.

There are a lot of canals around me, I run alongside them all the time and have often thought how pleasant it would be for a nice quiet paddle up and down them, see them from a different angle, watch the wildlife etc.

I've seen the occasional canoe on them so presume there's no restrictions and I don't have an issue paying for membership to the appropriate body.
I just need a two man canoe with room for luggage (i.e. sandwiches). Ideally inflatable since even a 'split' canoe would take up space I'd rather not give up. If I could carry it on a bike that would be superb but I rather suspect that's fanciful at best...

Ruadh495
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Re: Canoe

Postby Ruadh495 » 1 Dec 2017, 2:41pm

Why fanciful? You might want a trailer though, even for an inflatable. They are moderately bulky when deflated.

I did hear of someone doing a fairly significant tour (think it was in Canada) with a folding tandem and rigid aluminium canoe on a trailer. The bike could tow the canoe and the whole lot, bike and trailer, folded into the canoe.

Psamathe
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Re: Canoe

Postby Psamathe » 1 Dec 2017, 2:53pm

Ruadh495 wrote:.....
That BCU membership includes insurance as well. They do remind me of British Cycling, though (or rather British Cycling reminds me of the BCU). .....

BCU membership only includes 3rd party liability. They do offer add-on boat insurance but for many it's a real rip-off (and the admin method makes it even more of a rip-off).

I'm only a member for the waterways license. As an organisation they do seem mostly focused on racing/competition. Also, when there are issues in their practice they are very slow to address them (even when they recognise them as issues). e.g. BCU 2* training/award two types of craft (e.g. kayak and canoe) requirement - few who undertake the training use or seek to use both types of craft so all it does is double the length and cost of the course; BCU recognised this ages ago and are only now getting round to their 1st phase of "consulting". I don't know enough about BC to make a comparison.

Ian

old_windbag
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Re: Canoe

Postby old_windbag » 1 Dec 2017, 2:54pm

Ruadh495 wrote:I did hear of someone doing a fairly significant tour (think it was in Canada) with a folding tandem and rigid aluminium canoe on a trailer.


That reminded me of this from another current thread about carry freedom trailers.

https://carryfreedom.com/video-2/

PH
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Re: Canoe

Postby PH » 1 Dec 2017, 3:00pm

kwackers wrote:There are a lot of canals around me, I run alongside them all the time and have often thought how pleasant it would be for a nice quiet paddle up and down them, see them from a different angle, watch the wildlife etc.

I've seen the occasional canoe on them so presume there's no restrictions and I don't have an issue paying for membership to the appropriate body.
I just need a two man canoe with room for luggage (i.e. sandwiches).

What do canoes do at locks? Get out and carry I suppose?

kwackers
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Re: Canoe

Postby kwackers » 1 Dec 2017, 3:09pm

PH wrote:What do canoes do at locks? Get out and carry I suppose?

I've never seen one, but that's what I'm presuming.
(I'd imagine a degree of annoyance from other canal users if you operated the lock with an empty canoe in it. :lol: )

Vorpal
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Re: Canoe

Postby Vorpal » 1 Dec 2017, 3:11pm

I used to do a fair amount of canoing in the USA. My brother & I had a canoe. I think a friend of his has it now.

If buying a canoe, you need to be aware that there are a number of different types. It's similar for inflatables, but the selection is more limited. I would guess that it is even more so in the UK.

The main types are
-whitewater
-narrow profile
-general use/open water
-cargo
-sea

They all have slightly different shapes, and can to some extent be combined with each other (e.g. open water & cargo). What the types are called varies alot from one place to another. For example, a 'cargo' canoe is also called a 'camping' canoe or 'paddle tour' canoe. These are mostly general use type canoes with a wider middle for cargo. A white water canoe has a flatter bottom. It's much harder to steer, so it's not really suitable for beginners.

For anyone considering canoing, I recommend some practice righting a canoe in open water. Even experienced canoeists sometimes tip or get swamped, and it was a 'test' I had to pass before I was allowed to canoe on my own when I was young (early teens?). Also, keep any valuables, such as phones and wallets in something water tight, either attached to your body, or in something floating.
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Vorpal
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Re: Canoe

Postby Vorpal » 1 Dec 2017, 3:14pm

kwackers wrote:
PH wrote:What do canoes do at locks? Get out and carry I suppose?

I've never seen one, but that's what I'm presuming.
(I'd imagine a degree of annoyance from other canal users if you operated the lock with an empty canoe in it. :lol: )

Yes, canoes come with a pad, or pads or carry bars. It can be hard for a lone canoeist to portage a canoe and gear, if it's very far down, though. I've had to make two trips sometimes, even with two people.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Ruadh495
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Re: Canoe

Postby Ruadh495 » 1 Dec 2017, 3:17pm

PH wrote:What do canoes do at locks? Get out and carry I suppose?


IIRC (which I might not), the BCU "license" doesn't cover use of locks, so yes, exactly that. Small trolleys are useful.

Psamathe
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Re: Canoe

Postby Psamathe » 1 Dec 2017, 3:24pm

Re: Canoe vs Kayak
If you've not tried both I would suggest trying both before spending money. I started in a kayak, tried a canoe and didn't like them so stuck with kayaks. There is no right/wrong better/worse but different boats appeal to different people and trying both might help. I'd guess most places offering BCU 1* courses would have both types of boat (as the current 2* pretty much requires both types f bat to be used/assessed).

Ian

brynpoeth
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Re: Canoe

Postby brynpoeth » 1 Dec 2017, 3:36pm

Ruadh495 wrote:
PH wrote:What do canoes do at locks? Get out and carry I suppose?


IIRC (which I might not), the BCU "license" doesn't cover use of locks, so yes, exactly that. Small trolleys are useful.


Go through the locks with the other boats

On the ELK the pleasure boats travel in pelotons, several can be locked at a time, then the lock keeper can go back to relaxing

Freight vessels have priority of course
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Ruadh495
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Re: Canoe

Postby Ruadh495 » 1 Dec 2017, 3:37pm

Vorpal wrote:For anyone considering canoing, I recommend some practice righting a canoe in open water. Even experienced canoeists sometimes tip or get swamped, and it was a 'test' I had to pass before I was allowed to canoe on my own when I was young (early teens?). Also, keep any valuables, such as phones and wallets in something water tight, either attached to your body, or in something floating.


I'll second that bit. It's not easy, especially the getting back in bit. Even a small canoe looks like an oil tanker from the water... Make sure you practice not just with any canoe but with your canoe. Many canoes as sold are difficult to impossible to recover in deep water.

That's canoes; inflatables and sit-on-top kayaks should be much easier (while traditional kayaks are almost impossible, unless you roll successfully). It's probably not very relevant to someone who only wants to paddle on a canal though. Swim to the side is going to be the most viable method of recovery in a canal.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Canoe

Postby Tangled Metal » 1 Dec 2017, 10:48pm

Someone mentioned something about 2 star award that got wondering about the changes from when I last did kayak training course. It's totally different.

I remember the change from when I did my kayak training course. I did proficiency first. Well I'd already been taught a lot of skills at a swimming pool courses. I had a bombproof roll before I went outside for example. I did it for DofE so only needed the time spent and swimming pool course counted. It then changed such that no more proficiency qualification (once the entry whitewater touring course that was outside of the purely stroke and techniques based star courses). Equivalency was 4 star award.

Trouble was I needed 3 star to do an instructor course. On top of that I needed 2 star to do 3 star. Luckily my club took me on the 3 star and one examiner passed my 2 star for free.

Now the 2 star means 2 different styles of boat / canoeing style. Not when I got it. 3 star is more focused on one activity but when I did it it was mostly technique based IIRC.

Above all that it seems the star courses have a sporting component. I think what has been said before, BCU is sports focused. Not to my tastes. Glad I retired from kayaking. It was fun but I was due an accident.

Personally I can't see an inflatable would be a nice paddle. It's a shame the OP can't find a place to store a proper canoe/kayak. I think it'll be a nicer paddle.

Psamathe
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Re: Canoe

Postby Psamathe » 1 Dec 2017, 11:54pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Someone mentioned something about 2 star award that got wondering about the changes from when I last did kayak training course. It's totally different.

I remember the change from when I did my kayak training course. I did proficiency first. Well I'd already been taught a lot of skills at a swimming pool courses. I had a bombproof roll before I went outside for example. I did it for DofE so only needed the time spent and swimming pool course counted. It then changed such that no more proficiency qualification (once the entry whitewater touring course that was outside of the purely stroke and techniques based star courses). Equivalency was 4 star award.

Trouble was I needed 3 star to do an instructor course. On top of that I needed 2 star to do 3 star. Luckily my club took me on the 3 star and one examiner passed my 2 star for free.

Now the 2 star means 2 different styles of boat / canoeing style. Not when I got it. 3 star is more focused on one activity but when I did it it was mostly technique based IIRC.

Above all that it seems the star courses have a sporting component. I think what has been said before, BCU is sports focused. Not to my tastes. Glad I retired from kayaking. It was fun but I was due an accident.

Personally I can't see an inflatable would be a nice paddle. It's a shame the OP can't find a place to store a proper canoe/kayak. I think it'll be a nicer paddle.

The current star courses are aligned with the Euro Paddle Pass scheme so there is consistency across Europe. Of course the scheme they are now consulting on would break that equivalence!

These days you don't need to do the previous level before doing another level i.e. you can go straight from 1 star to 3 star (I'm not sure about 4 and 5 star thought).

I agree about the inflatable/"proper" thought but only from personal prejudice - I've never tried any inflatable. That said I have been very surprised about the difference between different kayaks in terms of how easy/tiring they are to paddle (short/fat=hard work, long/narrow=easy).

Ian

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Canoe

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 2 Dec 2017, 10:04am

Hi,
Friday, The Last Alaskans on freeview Quest, anyone watching it, 2nd episode last night so you might be able to watch, yes its repeated series.
Not watched 1st episode yet, but in there some where (not sure which episode which series) there are many is a guy and his young family that was some time back.
Its how the other half live in Alaska in the nature reserve where only surviving children of original settlers can live there, IIRC only 8 or so settlers left.

I won't ruin for anyone by saying whats going on, if you are not interested in that sort of out in the country living then it might bore you.
Edited-
1st episode is not as good as second, which is twice as good!
Last edited by NATURAL ANKLING on 2 Dec 2017, 11:48am, edited 1 time in total.
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