Geoff Smith frame and forks

[richardshill]

Morning... first post, so here goes.
Have a Geoff Smith frame and fork, lugged steel, Gipemme rear dropouts with double eyelets, 126mm OLN, Everest investment cast BB, frame weighs 2050gm (so most likely standard R531), top tube external cable guides so looks for all the world to be a mid '80's build.
However, having spoke to Geoff at the shop and had a quick exchange of emails (very helpful and patient!), am still none the wiser as to who might have built this for the shop. The bb and fork are both stamped 8163.
Pic shows post-purchase after a quick clean with most likely components I'll be running.
Any ideas / suggestions welcome!
cheers
Richard

[hamster]

Close-ups of lug and especially seat cluster details helps a lot.

[richardshill]

Ah, will sort those, cheers!

[richardshill]

Do these help? If not, can take some more detailed ones this evening
The file sizes are pretty small to make sure they're added.

[hamster]

That seat cluster looks really like Witcomb, however I'm not sure how much they did work for others.

[Brucey]

The lugwork is neat enough but then it is on lots of frames. However not every framebuilder would have used Gipiemme dropouts, so there is a clue there. The exact way that the extra eyes are added, the stays are joined into the dropouts and the way the RHS chainstay is scalloped at the join (to allow for the sprockets to clear as the wheel is removed) is also significant. 126mm OLN frames that are intended for use with 7s were typically more heavily scalloped than 6s ones, because the end sprocket is closer to the dropout.

However the frame looks to have been refinished and it might have been modified too.

It occurs to me that the choice of Gipiemme dropouts may have been because the hanger is a bit longer than normal. This usually allows a couple of extra teeth on the rear sprocket, using short arm mechs.

BTW I'd soon pull that rear wheel over; that type of QR is OK for use on vertical dropouts but isn't going to hold a wheel in a slotted dropout so well, IME.

cheers

[richardshill]

Really appreciate this.
The bike came with a seven speed block in a 126mm Tricolor hub, so that makes sense.
Will definitely pull the rear wheel back when I set it up, always a bit wary there
Based on the clues, anyone other than Witcomb as a candidate?

[richardshill]

Hmm, just been looking at Mercian's Audax Special (we can all dream!)
There's some pretty remarkable similarities - lugs, seat post, rear brake bridge.
Have emailed them...
...£20 to look it up, but looks like '80's Mercians have five digit serials so may a waste of money.

[richardshill]

Or, possibly, Ellis Briggs. They're looking mighty similar. Called the shop and they're happy to look as some pictures...

[hamster]

Hmm, just been looking at Mercian's Audax Special (we can all dream!)
There's some pretty remarkable similarities - lugs, seat post, rear brake bridge.
Have emailed them...
...£20 to look it up, but looks like '80's Mercians have five digit serials so may a waste of money.

I think Mercians also tended to have embossed Mercian seatstay caps.

[richardshill]

Looks like you're right. That trail's going cold

[Norman H]

I wonder if it may be by Andy Thompson from the time when he was operating in Hudersfield. The frame number 8163 might indicate 1981 which is around the right time period.

Andy Thompson later built frames for Orbit. It's vaguely reminiscent of a later Orbit frame that I have which has Gipiemme rear dropouts and similar lugs and seat stay ends. My frame has brake cable stops on the underside of the top tube.

[richardshill]

Now that's interesting. Any idea of how I can find out for sure? Weird, as I was looking at an Orbit for sale on retrobike last week...

[Norman H]

You might ask Geoff Smith if Andy Thompson ever made frames for them.

Andy Thompson last posted on this forum in 2011 here, using the name Featch.

[richardshill]

I'll drop Geoff a note, good idea.
I pm'd Andy, he hasn't replied yet.