Temporary Traffic Light Farce

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arnsider
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Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby arnsider » 30 Nov 2017, 9:44pm

There are problems with the Temporary traffic light timings at the Redwell Inn, on the B6254, between Carnforth and Kirkby Lonsdale.
The other day a dumper ignored the lights and drove straight at me. This delayed my passage through the works and a Shearings coach whose driver must have seen me in the section, just drove straight at me.
This is the third time I've had problems here and at Crag Bank.
The contractor just ignores any verbal complaint and the council don't even acknowledge my e mails.
I have sent a detailed report to HSE

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mjr
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby mjr » 1 Dec 2017, 8:51am

Immediate danger to life, you've tried the council, they're ignoring you... call the police :(

Actually, phone the council first. This is too urgent for email. In most, you want the highways emergency contact, or at least the street works officer.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

arnsider
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby arnsider » 4 Dec 2017, 5:54pm

The Police are a complete waste of space around here.
They regularly ignore hoards of speeding motorcyclists, but from now on will be pestering motorists with useless breath tests.
The HSE have palmed the complaint back to the council who have just acknowledged my complaint after a delay of four days.
Why do we bother!!!

brynpoeth
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby brynpoeth » 4 Dec 2017, 6:39pm

You could try involving the local tabloid media

How long is the stretch with lights? Is it on a hill? Is there an alternative route to avoid the terrorists?
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love STOP signs!

landsurfer
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby landsurfer » 4 Dec 2017, 7:02pm

arnsider wrote:The other day a dumper ignored the lights and drove straight at me. This delayed my passage through the works and a Shearings coach whose driver must have seen me in the section, just drove straight at me.


Let me get this right ... these 2 drivers deliberately tried to kill you. They decided to drive at you with intent to injure or kill. Is this your understanding of the events.

I have been cycling through local temporary lights on 2 occasions recently where the timing has been set in such a way that they change before a cycle can clear the possession. On both occasions i have come face to bumper with a vehicle travelling towards me. On both occasions the driver has been as upset as myself and on the second occasion a skip lorry driver blocked the possession and demanded the person in charge change the sequence to ensure cyclists could travel safely. Not a cyclist himself but his grandson is ....he said. Top chap.

I would challenge your statement that both the dumper and coach driver deliberately tried to hit you .....

On both occasions when travelling through the works the next day the timings had been changed .... human factors ..... If you don't tell them they can't sort it out.
The road goes on forever.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby Tangled Metal » 4 Dec 2017, 9:06pm

Crag Bank? As in just south of Carnforth on the A6? Thursday 30th of November was your post date of it's this crag bank I missed it. I travel down that road half past 7 am and half past 5 pm every day of the week. I missed those lights. I'm on bike or in the car. Guess I was half asleep. :oops:

IIRC the road by Redwall inn is a just off flat road that's often driven fast when clear. From the Carnforth side about third of a mile before there's a left then right 90 degrees bends then you can pick up speed on a motorized vehicle. Straight past the Inn fit some stretch.

Put simply this stretch had good visibility normally so I'd expect even with temporary lights vehicles could see for quite some way of on that straight section. If the truck and coach set off with you in the lights section they were in the wrong.

Has anyone taken primary in temporary lights with good visibility to make it clear you have right of way?

thirdcrank
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby thirdcrank » 4 Dec 2017, 9:37pm

I can't see how a driver ignoring temporary traffic lights can be attributed to the timings, unless they were stuck at red. :? FWIW, I think it's fairly common that contractors' workers at these sites dodge in and out as and when they think there's a gap in the traffic, paying little attention to the lights. I'm not defending it, just noting that it happens. It's aggravated if they treat a cyclist as a gap.

If it is a case of a driver ignoring a red light, then the only route I can see is prosecution of the driver, which as always, needs strong evidence. (And in the absence of an accident, an NIP.)

QUIST
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby QUIST » 6 Dec 2017, 1:08pm

sometimes the lights are poorly set so the sensor is either not pointed in the correct direction/ correctly programmed

I have also experienced oncoming drivers ignoring the change in lights ie going through when red towards me or tailgating another vehicle which has done the same

arnsider
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby arnsider » 15 Dec 2017, 8:58pm

Well, I should clarify. Both Dumper and coach drivers did not recklessly drive at me. No, but I had no alternative but to dismount.
Fair enough, there was no aggressive intent but neither was there any acknowledgement or a give and take/apology.
Here's the reply I received from HSE, detailing the incident from my perspective;


Thank you for taking the time to report your concern to the Health and Safety Executive. The enforcement of health and safety matters in this particular concern does not fall to HSE.
For the issues in the concern you have raised with us, it will be for the Lancashire County Council Highways department to deal with.
In your concern to HSE you mentioned you have contacted the council. So I contacted them myself at 15.30pm on 01/12/17 to discuss your concern. The highway department were unable to find your complaints. However, they have now logged this complaint and provided the log reference – 49854. I was advised you will receive an email confirmation about this and you can contact the highways on 03001236780 with this reference to provide any additional information or to progress chase the complaints.
If you have any further questions please put them to the Lancashire County Council Highways department. You can find all their contact details here - Lancashire County Council Highways department
Thank you.

Here's an acknowledgement from Lancs CC


Hello,
Thank you for your enquiry.
We have forwarded your enquiry onto the relevant department and they will contact you soon to help further.
We hope you find this information useful. If you require information regarding services provided by Lancashire County Council including online reporting of faults on roads and streetlights in the future please visit our website www.lancashire.gov.uk.
Regards,
Customer Services

That was eleven days ago and here is my reply to HES today;

Hi,
I am very disappointed by your reply and I am bewildered by the way you palmed it off.
There are obviously issues concerning site safety outwith road traffic considerations and your actions in that respect might have forced the contractor to clean up his act.
For your information, I received notification from Lancs CC advising me that someone would contact me.
That was eleven days ago and I'm still waiting.
These contractors have moved their operations on to a stretch of twisting, hilly road which will present hazards to cyclists if the traffic management does not allow them time to clear sections of single lane working.
There may well be instances where cyclists are meeting cars and wagons head on, on blind bends if proper timings have not been applied.
I have informed all local cyclists of the hazards via the CTC forum and in the event of an injury, all these e mails will be tendered as evidence of both you and Lancs CC being warned of problems.
I am disgusted by this matter and your lack lustre intransigence.
Robert W Cross

I give up!!!!

arnsider
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby arnsider » 15 Dec 2017, 9:00pm

I should add that I was unable to transmit that to HSE because of the usual "No reply" dodge that these people use if they don't want to deal further

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gaz
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby gaz » 15 Dec 2017, 9:09pm

Hand wash only. Do not iron.

arnsider
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby arnsider » 15 Dec 2017, 9:14pm

In reply to the contentious few on here, There are no allegations or observations of vehicles jumping red lights. That is an irrelevance.
The issue is simple.
The timings of the traffic lights protecting cyclists is not fit for purpose. Lights change to green long before cyclists clear single lane workings and confront vehicles where there are no refuges.
It's not at all complicated and does not warrant the obfuscation it's getting.
It's a countrywide problem and is not taken seriously enough.
I concede that the council street works coordinator should be requested, but you try getting through to them at the time, on the road.
The Police!! Well if they turned up, I'd put a tenner on the lottery!

arnsider
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 12:44am

Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby arnsider » 16 Dec 2017, 10:32am

In response to Tangled metal;
With all due respect, your command of English is a little lacking.
There were temporary traffic lights on Crag Bank road for some weeks recently, installed by the very same contractors as those up at Redwell.
My problem here was as a motorist, being caught between the lights whilst an unsupervised plant movement delayed my passage , resulting in a head to head confrontation with another motorist. I was even shouted at by a cyclist who might have been yourself.
This aptly illustrates the issue of unsupervised plant movements within the single lane workings.
Going back to the Redwell incident as a cyclist, I was clearly visible by drivers stopped at lights, trying to clear the section to avoid holding them up, one would have wished for a little patience. Not so from this impatient Shearings Coach driver , out on a jolly, with a group of pensioners, probably bound for tea in Morecambe!
There is no give and take but more importantly, there should be rules in force and if timings cannot be adjusted, then proper provision for signed refuges and warnings should be in place. Plant movements inside controlled lanes must be supervised by a Banksman.
That issue alone should have rang alarm bells in HSE, but as shown, they could not care less.

thirdcrank
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Dec 2017, 11:43am

A couple of things I cannot reconcile:

... The other day a dumper ignored the lights and drove straight at me. ...

... There are no allegations or observations of vehicles jumping red lights. ...

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bigjim
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Re: Temporary Traffic Light Farce

Postby bigjim » 16 Dec 2017, 3:42pm

You can report these type of problems on the "Fix My Street" website. They do inform the council and I often get a reply this way.
There are some permanent lights near me that control a single narrow lane under a railway bridge. The lights do not give enough time for a bike to ride through. Bikes also do not trip the lights, so if there is a vehicle on the other side, the lights will trip and allow that vehicle through before you have reached the other side. Also if you approach on a red you have to wait until a vehicle turns up to trip the light. I often just ride on the, usually empty, pavement.
Nothing left to prove.