It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Manchester Guardian / the Independent!

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meic
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian!

Postby meic » 26 Nov 2017, 11:53am

I think it may be disingenuous to suggest only Trump supporters are affected.


I dont think that it would be disingenuous to say such a thing, those who would say it would really believe it because their reading matter would have conditioned them to see Trump supporters in that way.

Back at the beginning of our discussion you accused me of not being a " non- questioner".
I am starting to think that may be a more apt thing to say about yourself.

A failure to agree to your rather firm view of what happened doesnt make me a non-questioner.

I dont think that I have the definitive answer that the Russians didnt do it, it is just that the agreed facts dont prove that the Russians did it. The suggestions that they did are from those with a belligerent stance towards Russians and an application of double standards, so I dont give them much credence.

If you really want to impress your Guardian reading friends, just read Al-Jazeera and RT everyday and you can tell them tommorow's news. An important part of our press is which stories they feel are worthy of presenting, if it wasnt for external news sources forcing the hand of internal sources a lot of "inconvenient" world events would get pretty much ignored.
Yma o Hyd

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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian!

Postby PDQ Mobile » 26 Nov 2017, 2:47pm

meic wrote:A failure to agree to your rather firm view of what happened doesnt make me a non-questioner.

I dont think that I have the definitive answer that the Russians didnt do it, it is just that the agreed facts dont prove that the Russians did it. The suggestions that they did are from those with a belligerent stance towards Russians and an application of double standards, so I dont give them much credence.



It's not the fact that your not agreeing with "my rather firm view" that makes me think you should question more but rather that you seem to ignore what patient analysis has proved to be what happened.

That is the Air Accident Report.
Note the word accident!

I believe it is an evenhanded document compiled by dedicated professionals in their field seeking the truth.
There is a very simple truth somewhere. For it is, in actuality, not a complex event.

To dismiss the report as false misleading or as some propaganda exercise seems disingenuous, biased even, particularly as all the counter claims from Russia have been shown to be false or mere fabrications.

I fear we shall not agree.
YVMV

Please don't make assumptions about my news sources, (or friends).
You would be very surprised I think.
Suffice to say a good deal of what I choose to read is Foreign Language comment.

I try always to confine myself to the facts in my possession.
At best though, my humble opinion is one of "Joe Public".
I was however horrified by those events in the Ukraine, touched by the unnecessary tragedy and horror of it.
At the time I found the attitude and demeanor of the Militias on the ground to be wholly distasteful and shameful.
I was very glad I did not have to live amongst such brutish men.

brynpoeth
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby brynpoeth » 28 Nov 2017, 9:06am

The Independent does not report about the royal family, +1
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Tangled Metal
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Nov 2017, 10:02am

I was in the northeast at the weekend and for the first time in a long while I saw a copy of the morning star being sold in a supermarket. It might be down to the area of the country but this way farming papers yes but morning star never. I think it was Liverpool the last place I saw a supermarket selling it.

It had a good cover story on the anti fascists. Perhaps it is worth reading outside of your comfort zone occasionally. Time you guardian readers bought a daily mail perhaps?

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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby brynpoeth » 28 Nov 2017, 10:08am

Tangled Metal wrote:I was in the northeast at the weekend and for the first time in a long while I saw a copy of the morning star being sold in a supermarket. It might be down to the area of the country but this way farming papers yes but morning star never. I think it was Liverpool the last place I saw a supermarket selling it.

It had a good cover story on the anti fascists. Perhaps it is worth reading outside of your comfort zone occasionally. Time you guardian readers bought a daily mail perhaps?


+1
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby brynpoeth » 29 Nov 2017, 1:02pm

+1for the coverage of the Fairytale Wedding in the Grauniad, no need to buy a tabloid paper
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby Vorpal » 29 Nov 2017, 6:16pm

Tangled Metal wrote:It had a good cover story on the anti fascists. Perhaps it is worth reading outside of your comfort zone occasionally. Time you guardian readers bought a daily mail perhaps?

While I agree that it is a good idea to understand other perspectives, the Daily Mail stretches the truth for the sake of sensationalism about as badly as any paper I've come across. I find it hard going based on that alone. I do read news from conservative sources as well as liberal, but I can take very little of the Daily Mail.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian!

Postby brynpoeth » 14 Dec 2017, 8:34pm

I have a special reason to love the G, see OP

It does have plenty that does not interest me, there is far too much to read it all but I like how the North of England Correspondent reports from Wales, she had to get a car when she moved to Manchester although she loves cycling

Local papers are often interesting
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661-Pete
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby 661-Pete » 14 Dec 2017, 9:05pm

Vorpal wrote:While I agree that it is a good idea to understand other perspectives, the Daily Mail stretches the truth for the sake of sensationalism about as badly as any paper I've come across. I find it hard going based on that alone. I do read news from conservative sources as well as liberal, but I can take very little of the Daily Mail.

I would no more wish to read the printed version of the Daily Heil, than I would wish to read Mein Kampf. There are limits, and today's outrage ought, in a just and fair society, to be enough to bring down criminal prosecutions against Dacre and his henchmen.

But we are not living in a just and fair society.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Dec 2017, 9:54pm

Not sure whether I love the Grauniad any more, it keeps asking me for money, the whole screen is obscured by the request for payment which cannot be closed
It appears about a minute after opening an article

Grrrrrt
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Ben@Forest
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby Ben@Forest » 17 Dec 2017, 11:05pm

brynpoeth wrote:The Independent does not report about the royal family, +1


That isn't true any more. I read the 'i' most often and was a bit surprised to see a double spread about the Harry and Meghan wedding. It doesn't bother me but l thought the Independent had this 'no or at least very little Royals interest' policy.

Then l remembered that the 'i' and the Independent have parted company (at least to some degree) so l went on the Independent website - but plenty of coverage there too, though on a web platform it's hard to know how much coverage there is compared to the rest of it's news output.

Overall however l think the lndependent's no Royals policy has bitten the dust.

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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Jan 2018, 6:01pm

Oh dear, Peter Preston has died at 79, he joined the paper in Manchester and was editor for many years
Just read an obituary by David McKee, another Guardian star

The Independent started publishing in 1986, PP had the Guardian redesigned and sales went up to 500 000

I still like to read the paper on paper occasionally, it is somehow *more* than on the interweb
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby brynpoeth » 15 Jan 2018, 9:26am

Oh dear, the Guardian has been redesigned again
The article about this showed an interesting screen shot of the website in 1996,+1
Maybot it will soon go back to Manchester, the northern poorhouse
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Feb 2018, 9:11am

The Guardian has a "long read" about anaesthesia today
I wish it would publish a short version too
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Re: It is earnestly to be hoped - we love the Guardian / the Independent!

Postby brynpoeth » 24 Mar 2018, 9:02am

Ian Jack has a good article today (standard post from me :wink:) about art, violence, change in society

Does anyone here still read the Independent? I would but I have too much to read already
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