A tougher line on speeding?

[Cyril Haearn]

For those who missed it, Anthony Bangham has replaced Suzette Davenport as Roads Policing lead for the National Police Chiefs' Council (ACPO as was.)

He's set a cat among the pigeons by suggesting a much tougher line on speeding. With apologies for the link to the Daily Mail, it's the place where a lot of the complaining is concentrated. The story has been carried by most papers for anybody who wants to read it elsewhere

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... eding.html

The strange thing is the audience to which he addressed his speech, the Police Federation roads policing conference.
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. . .

Would you care to speculate why he made the speech at the conference, where might have been a better place to make it?

[squeaker]

The 10% inaccuracy on standard motor vehicles is simply a matter of finance, to make it any better would cost the manufacturer and of course the consumer more. Until the motor industry are obliged to provide calibrated speedometers for all vehicles the '1 mph' excess speed prosecution can't happen.

Er, but the margin of error is all on the indicating too high side of actual
I agree that the '1 mph over' comment was what might be expected from a pen-pusher, though

[Cyril Haearn]

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in Britain and on the continent, right through London and Berlin etc

I have surely gone too fact occasionally but I have never been caught

I understand that to be caught one must be doing 30+%+x, maybe 37 mph

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves?

One of them was caught doing 23 in a 20. They said it was unintentional and I believe them because they are honest people. They made a mistake, and they know that. But quite rightly they point to the fact that they try to get it right, and others who do not seem to get away with it. I've seen them driving in our village and elsewhere, and they always seem to be going slowly. And to be frank, if you knew them you would regret suggesting they should be ashamed of anything. The word "selfless" comes to mind.

They broke the law and were caught, simple as that
I am a kindly person too but if I were caught speeding I would be ashamed, so ashamed that I would try to keep it secret
Are they not ashamed?

[pwa]

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in Britain and on the continent, right through London and Berlin etc

I have surely gone too fact occasionally but I have never been caught

I understand that to be caught one must be doing 30+%+x, maybe 37 mph

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves?

One of them was caught doing 23 in a 20. They said it was unintentional and I believe them because they are honest people. They made a mistake, and they know that. But quite rightly they point to the fact that they try to get it right, and others who do not seem to get away with it. I've seen them driving in our village and elsewhere, and they always seem to be going slowly. And to be frank, if you knew them you would regret suggesting they should be ashamed of anything. The word "selfless" comes to mind.

They broke the law and were caught, simple as that
I am a kindly person too but if I were caught speeding I would be ashamed, so ashamed that I would try to keep it secret
Are they not ashamed?

You have already admitted speeding (as have I) so you should be feeling ashamed already if that is how you react to a small mistake. Going a couple of mph over the limit is a mistake that anyone can and will make if they drive. So long as you are trying to get it right, getting it slightly wrong once in a while is not something to beat yourself up about. You just think about how you can improve and you carry on. But actually feeling shame is daft because you knew you would make that mistake as soon as you started driving. You are human, not a robot, and 100% compliance with speed limits is not possible. Next time you get behind the wheel you will be risking exceeding the speed limit because you are human. There are no non-speeding motorists. All of us who drive are speeders occasionally. So we either all feel shame all the time, or we accept our human condition and just keep trying to improve.

What is the point of speed limits and implementation of them? It is to bring speed down to a level that someone with (ideally) a bit of expertise judges to be acceptable for a particular bit of road. My neighbours try to comply, so I don't see how a heavy penalty could be helpful. They will continue trying to comply anyway. What we want is for others to follow their example and bring their speed down. I'm not too worried about cars going through our village at 32mph instead of 30, but I am concerned about those who go through at 40 or 50. They are driven by the real villains, the ones who will go as fast as they think they can get away with, not the ones aiming for the speed limit but not quite getting it right.

[thirdcrank]

... Would you care to speculate why he made the speech at the conference, where might have been a better place to make it?

I've no idea why he made the speech. IMO, The obvious audience - who may already have heard something similar with less publicity - is the "police chiefs" ie the PCC's and chief officers. They are the people who decide enforcement policy.

I don't know what, if any, is the agreed policy among members for following agreed policies, if that makes sense. Formerly, ACPO members agreed to the "Wright Protocol" named after its originator, the late Peter Wright, under which chief officers agreed to follow agreed ACPO policies or else to explain in writing their reasons for not doing so. One result of that was that if individual chief officers were challenged about a policy, they could fall back on the ACPO policy, but if ACPO was approached the stock line was that individual chief officers were autonomous and decided their own force's policy.

(A lot of "agreeds" there, but I can't think of any other explanation. I looked for a link but the term is now used in connection with cancer.)

ACPO used to have various committees dealing with different policy areas, of which Road Traffic used to be a very important one. I'm very much out of touch but it now seems to be a short straw.

[Cyril Haearn]

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..

Yes I am ashamed of exceeding the maximum speed limit, I am ashamed of other things I have done or not done too (to do with people, not cycling or driving), I admit this to myself and try to learn and do better

Not sure whether I often exceed the maximum speed limit now, I do use my speedo a lot
Staying under the maximum speed limit so infuriates normal drivers that they 'must' often cross unbroken lines to overtake. I fear that by driving legally I could be accused (by the cops!) of causing an 'accident'

The best thing to do is to give up driving if possible because driving properly is abnormal and is seen as provocative
Anyone agree?

[Bonefishblues]

..

..

Yes I am ashamed of exceeding the maximum speed limit, I am ashamed of other things I have done or not done too (to do with people, not cycling or driving), I admit this to myself and try to learn and do better

Not sure whether I often exceed the maximum speed limit now, I do use my speedo a lot
Staying under the maximum speed limit so infuriates normal drivers that they 'must' often cross unbroken lines to overtake. I fear that by driving legally I could be accused (by the cops!) of causing an 'accident'

The best thing to do is to give up driving if possible because driving properly is abnormal and is seen as provocative
Anyone agree?

I drive legally as a matter of course and don't notice behaviour like you report.

[Cyril Haearn]

..

..

Yes I am ashamed of exceeding the maximum speed limit, I am ashamed of other things I have done or not done too (to do with people, not cycling or driving), I admit this to myself and try to learn and do better

Not sure whether I often exceed the maximum speed limit now, I do use my speedo a lot
Staying under the maximum speed limit so infuriates normal drivers that they 'must' often cross unbroken lines to overtake. I fear that by driving legally I could be accused (by the cops!) of causing an 'accident'

The best thing to do is to give up driving if possible because driving properly is abnormal and is seen as provocative
Anyone agree?

I drive legally as a matter of course and don't notice behaviour like you report.

What, you don't see drivers exceeding the maximum limit?

[Bonefishblues]

Crossing unbroken lines in particular. I see vehicles exceeding the speed limit pretty routinely, as I suspect do we all.

[Cyril Haearn]

Crossing unbroken lines in particular. I see vehicles exceeding the speed limit pretty routinely, as I suspect do we all.

Crossing unbroken lines is very common round here

[reohn2]

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in Britain and on the continent, right through London and Berlin etc

I have surely gone too fact occasionally but I have never been caught

I understand that to be caught one must be doing 30+%+x, maybe 37 mph

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves?

I knew a woman now dead,who was caught speeding(static camera that she knew was there) 33mph in a 30 limit,she thought it harsh £60 +3 points at the time she wasn't given the option of a safety course as they weren't available at the time.
She wasn't ashamed just felt she'd made a small mistake.
BTW,a more socially responsible person you couldn't have wished to meet.

[Cyril Haearn]

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in Britain and on the continent, right through London and Berlin etc

I have surely gone too fact occasionally but I have never been caught

I understand that to be caught one must be doing 30+%+x, maybe 37 mph

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves?

I knew a woman now dead,who was caught speeding(static camera that she knew was there) 33mph in a 30 limit,she thought it harsh £60 +3 points at the time she wasn't given the option of a safety course as they weren't available at the time.
She wasn't ashamed just felt she'd made a small mistake.

How did you learn about this case?
Seems people are NOT ashamed, else they would try not to tell anyone, right?

[Bonefishblues]

Crossing unbroken lines in particular. I see vehicles exceeding the speed limit pretty routinely, as I suspect do we all.

Crossing unbroken lines is very common round here

Here being where?

[Tizme]

I see drivers speeding as a regular occurrence. Frequently driving through a 30mph speed limit I will be overtaken, despite the fact that in another 200 metres the limit ends and the road is completely straight for nigh on 2 miles and gives ample opportunity to pass a slow-coach like me. I am also quite sure that if these speeders were caught they would be full of righteous indignation that the Police were victimising "innocent" drivers just trying to "earn a living".

[Cyril Haearn]

Crossing unbroken lines in particular. I see vehicles exceeding the speed limit pretty routinely, as I suspect do we all.

Crossing unbroken lines is very common round here

Here being where?

B105
That is an A-road east from Luebeck, I used to drive that way to work

Just occurred to me, I drive a small car (not so small, 4/5 seats, big boot but it is **low status** in the pecking order as reohn2 once explained). That could explain a lot