Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
Depends on why you want cycling heaven.
You appear to want it as a leisure activity... Other people want it as a practical transport choice...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
Spot on.pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
Definitely.
Indeed.
+1
I agree.
Spot on.[XAP]Bob wrote:You appear to want it as a leisure activity... Other people want it as a practical transport choice...
Definitely.
Indeed.
+1
I agree.
The point is, we want good cycling provision, done properly, where we want it. We want it were we want it.
Holland is an awful cycling place IMHO. Been there, done it.
Give me hills, even to commute with.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
Netherlands is good when cycling for functional transport AND one can cycle over to the hilly bits of Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, etc, for a bit of leisure, WITHOUT the major cross-channel expense and hassle of the UK.
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
Ok, but how far away are the hilly bits of Germany, Belgium, France and Switzerland?Graham wrote:Netherlands is good when cycling for functional transport AND one can cycle over to the hilly bits of Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, etc, for a bit of leisure, WITHOUT the major cross-channel expense and hassle of the UK.
When I commuted, it was an enjoyable 17 hilly miles each way.
I go out for leisure these days, and like a nice circuit of anything from 20miles to 50+miles. All nice and hilly.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
[XAP]Bob wrote:pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
Depends on why you want cycling heaven.
You appear to want it as a leisure activity... Other people want it as a practical transport choice...
I suppose I don't actually want to live in a place without decent hills, cycling or not. It may have some of the attributes of a cycling heaven, but it lacks one. Heaven aint flat.
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
But would you like to live in the Alps with a bike as your form of transport?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
Graham wrote:Netherlands is good when cycling for functional transport AND one can cycle over to the hilly bits of Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, etc, for a bit of leisure, WITHOUT the major cross-channel expense and hassle of the UK.
Spot on!
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
stu1102 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle-heaven-moved-family-netherlands-houten-utrecht
looks like The Village to me
[youtube]zalndXdxriI[/youtube]
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
Personally a few hills plus cycling for transport is heaven. Why can't the UK have cycling at the centre of transport design / planning? Hills and the attitude of Houten would be closer to heaven. Maybe not huge, steep hills but a bit of variety in the altitude is necessary for the cycling soul IMHO.
BTW I've cycled in a part of Holland, the dunes, and they do have hills of sorts. Infrastructure isn't perfect neither IMHO. Perhaps Houten is different.
BTW I've cycled in a part of Holland, the dunes, and they do have hills of sorts. Infrastructure isn't perfect neither IMHO. Perhaps Houten is different.
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
reohn2 wrote:pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
But would you like to live in the Alps with a bike as your form of transport?
No, but that is thinking about bikes as if they are just utility things, like a washing machine or a vacuum cleaner. Practical but not inspiring. A great experience cycling, for me, involves hills and interesting countryside, not flat towns. Flat towns are what I try to escape. If walking heaven is about traffic free routes in towns, I'll have to rethink my love of hill walking.
Practical cycling is something I do, but I enjoy the fact that my commutes involve quiet hilly lanes. I'd not trade that for flat traffic-free routes.
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
[XAP]Bob wrote:pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
Depends on why you want cycling heaven.
You appear to want it as a leisure activity... Other people want it as a practical transport choice...
Both. All
There are some hilly bits in the Nether-Lands
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
pwa wrote:reohn2 wrote:pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
But would you like to live in the Alps with a bike as your form of transport?
No, but that is thinking about bikes as if they are just utility things, like a washing machine or a vacuum cleaner. Practical but not inspiring.
Practical doesn't mean uninspiring.I'd argue that the utility of the bicycle and the much,much better environment which has been developed around it's use is extremely inspiring TBH.
A great experience cycling, for me, involves hills and interesting countryside, not flat towns. Flat towns are what I try to escape. If walking heaven is about traffic free routes in towns, I'll have to rethink my love of hill walking
Man people live in flat towns in the UK where the NL model could be adopted and the inhabitants lives enriched because of it,those people may have to travel to hilly areas for their leisure cycling and walking.TBH I think it's a bit peevish to complain about NL's topography in relation to cycling when it really is cycling heaven compared to most countries and particularly the UK's crap attitude to he bike as a utility vehicle.
Practical cycling is something I do, but I enjoy the fact that my commutes involve quiet hilly lanes. I'd not trade that for flat traffic-free routes.
No one's asking you to,but to right off NL cycling's status due to a lack of your preferred topography is to miss the point of the OP IMO.
EDIT:- just to add,NL is cycle heaven not because it's flat but because the bike is king!
Last edited by reohn2 on 16 May 2018, 8:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands
Tangled Metal wrote:Personally a few hills plus cycling for transport is heaven. Why can't the UK have cycling at the centre of transport design / planning? ......
Because it's a backward country with outraged attitudes and a very unhealthy class system that seems to think your a nobody if you ride a bike,ride a recumbent and your really of you rocker
Last edited by reohn2 on 16 May 2018, 8:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden