Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
PAB855
Posts: 202
Joined: 26 Apr 2014, 3:07pm

Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby PAB855 » 19 Apr 2018, 10:59am

The 20inch rear wheel with a Panda electric motor and 9 speed on my wìfe's ICE ADVENTURE recumbent trike is a very tight fit and needs to be carefully fitted in the frame by entering the drive side first. It goes in, but my concern is being in the middle of nowhere with a puncture in the rear tyre!
Yesterday it was taken out and put back, but in my garage, with a huge amount of effort and being able to have the rear of the trike jacked up on the outside of one leg of a trainer frame, which will not be coming on holiday with us!

Has anybody devised a gadget to make this easier e.g. a bracket to take the end of the spindle and rest against the rear of the dropout just to act like an extra pair of hands. If it could be screwed against the frame, could it slowly draw the spindle into the gap! Dream on?

Cheers

hercule
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Joined: 5 Feb 2011, 5:18pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby hercule » 19 Apr 2018, 9:44pm

Can you replace some of the washers on the axle with something slimmer? Or if you have the anti-rotation washers facing out turn them the other way round and pad out the interior space with suitable flat washers? Or as I did with a Sturmey 8 speed hub, grind down the anti-rotation washers a bit. It doesn’t sound like you’d need to do it by much.

It also occurred to me that if you have an off-the-shelf wheel kit then it will not be built for ICE's asymmetric rear triangle so with wider tyres there may be a risk of inadequate clearances with the rear stays, but that doesn’t quite sound the problem.

Another suggestion often raised here is to get one of the blind ended inner tubes as a spare so you don’t have to take the wheel off to manage a puncture. I’ve read of the names Gaadi and Cobra tubes in this connection.

hemo
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Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby hemo » 19 Apr 2018, 11:05pm

I would go down the Gaadi route if a 20" tube is available and get two.
I now use Gaadi in my 700c to save my self grief of wheel removal, one in and another as a spare in the pannier.

PAB855
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Joined: 26 Apr 2014, 3:07pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby PAB855 » 20 Apr 2018, 2:44pm

Thanks very much.

Changing the spacers has just been done to improve the freewheeling as there was a bit of drag. I am happy with the much freer movement, and will see if it remains so. The last spacers actually compressed over time slightly to create drag. The setting is really critical, so I think I will leave it to see how it performs for the next few months.

That type of tube is a great idea. I have never heard of it. I think I will take a couple on holiday and not need to worry about removing the rear wheel. They are available in 20inch and appear to be popular among electric assist riders. I can get the wheel removed if I want to at a more convenient place and time.

How do they perform? Are there any disadvantages? Do they run at normal pressures? Do they run smoothly? Are they easy to fit?

Sorry to ask so many questions and many thanks again for your help.

Cheers

hercule
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Joined: 5 Feb 2011, 5:18pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby hercule » 20 Apr 2018, 8:22pm

I haven't used the Gaadi/Cobra tubes myself but by sheer coincidence am installing a Panda hub on a Kettwiesel for my OH to ride... obviously it’s a front and not the back. I therefore think I’m going to be in the market for a spare tube or two just in case. The hub needs a 19mm spanner for the locknuts as well as other tools to release the torque arm - there are definite advantages in not having to mess around with tools at the roadside and lose tiny bits in the grass!

The Panda hub is impressive set up as a throttle only motor but I really want it set up in pedelec mode - unfortunately with the Kett's non standard design fitting the PAS disk and sensor is tricky and needs some thought. I also found the hub to be a tight squeeze in the Kett's 100mm front dropouts, the fork is a very rigid aluminium one which makes it very difficult to squeeze in. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of the axle compression causing drag and will watch out for this.

PAB855
Posts: 202
Joined: 26 Apr 2014, 3:07pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby PAB855 » 21 Apr 2018, 8:44am

That reminds me of the Pashley Tri 1 upright trike that had a retrofitted motor fitted. Alongside the motor was a SA brake. Sorry can't say which, but very slim. I did manage to widen the front fork gap by about 1mm which made enough of a difference, but the operation was a tad dangerous because of the excessive force required with makeshift tools.

On the evidence posted I have ordered two of the Gaadi tubes from SJScycles. It wasn't easy finding a supplier with "all of the colours in all of the sizes".They appear to be popular in Holland for bikes with so much to remove on back wheels.

I am much more relaxed now about future outings and in particular holidays.

Thanks again

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Cunobelin
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Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Apr 2018, 8:47am

PAB855 wrote:The 20inch rear wheel with a Panda electric motor and 9 speed on my wìfe's ICE ADVENTURE recumbent trike is a very tight fit and needs to be carefully fitted in the frame by entering the drive side first. It goes in, but my concern is being in the middle of nowhere with a puncture in the rear tyre!
Yesterday it was taken out and put back, but in my garage, with a huge amount of effort and being able to have the rear of the trike jacked up on the outside of one leg of a trainer frame, which will not be coming on holiday with us!

Has anybody devised a gadget to make this easier e.g. a bracket to take the end of the spindle and rest against the rear of the dropout just to act like an extra pair of hands. If it could be screwed against the frame, could it slowly draw the spindle into the gap! Dream on?

Cheers



As above, there is an easier, simpler and less expensive option that I used on my wife's Brompton to save her the complex task of wheel removal, and also on her Bionx Gekko is a double end inner tube:

Image

They take a little more care in alignment when fitting, but have the advantage that a puncture repair that does not require wheel removal.

hemo
Posts: 250
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby hemo » 21 Apr 2018, 10:09am

Before fitting the tyre fully I pump it up a little just to make sure it is sitting properly and that the ends are abutted. Psi wise no issues with 50/60psi on my 700c rear hub wheel or running at over 20 mph.
Presta is most commom though you can now get some in Schrader, for Presta I use a small grommet in my Schrader rims and a very cheap valve adapter for use with the scrader pump I carry. LBS might have an adapter or you can get a 5 pack on ebay for 99p.

PAB855
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Joined: 26 Apr 2014, 3:07pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby PAB855 » 21 Apr 2018, 1:24pm

That's good to know. Thanks

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Apr 2018, 11:04pm

I carry on, and have used it for exactly the reason you are looking. Tied up the failed tube onto the rear triangle, slotted in the sidewinder, got me home.

Then I repaired and replaced the original tube, folding the sidewinder back into its safe place in a bag.

Didn’t notice it particularly feeling different IIRC, but the potential for abrasion on the overlap would encourage me to repair and use a ‘normal tube when practical)0
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

PAB855
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Joined: 26 Apr 2014, 3:07pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby PAB855 » 18 May 2018, 1:35pm

You say overlap, Bob. Does it not fit with the end faces against each other?

Cheers

PAB855
Posts: 202
Joined: 26 Apr 2014, 3:07pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby PAB855 » 2 Jun 2018, 7:03pm

I've just fitted one of these Gaadi tubes to the rear wheel of the ICE recumbent trike. The wheel had been removed but I will need assistance to replace it. I was hoping I could replace it solo but it's impossible because the motor modification makes the wheel wider than the one that it replaced.

Having the motor means the trike could easily be ridden without so many gears. How would changing it to say a 7 speed help to reduce the width. Is it feasible? It sounds too simple, but a reduction of two sprockets would be more than enough to free up space would it not?

Cheers

hercule
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Joined: 5 Feb 2011, 5:18pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby hercule » 2 Jun 2018, 8:25pm

I would have thought the wheel should be 135mm spaced though admittedly my Panda front wheel is a tight fit in the 100mm forks too. Given that road bikes have 130mm spacing I’m not sure that you necessarily need to reduce the number of rear sprockets. You’d have to replace the freewheel/freehub for that to make any difference.

Are there any locknuts on the axle that could be removed or slimmed down (eg grinding them down a bit)? I’ve done that to a Sturmey 8 speed hub gear to get it to fit the dropouts of an old bike. I would be cautious though with a hub motor, I suspect the margin for error is a bit less with all that power on tap!

EDIT: I see I’m repeating myself, sorry! :oops:

hercule
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Joined: 5 Feb 2011, 5:18pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby hercule » 2 Jun 2018, 8:36pm

PS having now got the PAS working (required a bit of lateral thinking) the set up is very impressive. Hill climbing is not the problem I feared although on very steep hills the front wheel can skip and you need to reduce then assistance to a minimum, but it still helps; on more normal hills it just romps up. Battery range seems very good too.

And against my expectations I personally work just as hard but go further in less time.

PAB855
Posts: 202
Joined: 26 Apr 2014, 3:07pm

Re: Rear wheel tight fit. Panda motor +9 speed. ICE recumbent

Postby PAB855 » 3 Jun 2018, 11:50am

Thanks Hercule, that's more information to add to my library of useful tips.

Fortunately a couple of cycle mechanics will be here later today to refit the wheel. I took the opportunity to change the inner tube to a Gaadi one while the wheel is out.

I will broach the subject of a reduced number of sprockets and a narrower wheel which can have spacers ADDEDif necessary, rather than the current arrangement.

I even had the mad idea of grinding a millimetre off the inside of the frame at the dropouts, which would invalidate any warranty but I'm sure there's enough safety margin built in to the design unless rock climbing is to be attempted. Getting desperate now, must calm down.

Cheers