What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

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What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby Username » 5 Jun 2018, 7:41am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44361016

but people will still continue to drive around seemingly doing **** all. Most likely just looking for somewhere else to park. You'd think that with increasing costs, people would be put off driving. But it seems the roads are getting busier all the time. Even my local streets are getting more and more clogged up with cars. It can't be commuters as you only have to sign on once per week. WTH is going on? Has anyone here tried getting insurance for a car, particularly if you're under 25? It would be cheaper to insure Australia. Plus theres the fines. Cameras get you when you are speeding, traffic wardens get you when you're not speeding at all, and the police get you when you've just came from your dealer. Does everybody know something I dont? How do so many people cope with all that shiz every day!? They have my sympathy.
Last edited by Graham on 6 Jun 2018, 11:15am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: This should be good news

Postby Tangled Metal » 5 Jun 2018, 9:23am

As a cyclist and motorist I don't see it as good news. There's a lot of valid uses for internal combustion engined vehicles. AFAIK increasing prices (through excise or increases in oil prices) doesn't result in reduced use of vehicles or better driving. Enforcement might have an effect but you need the political will to get that.

Good news would be the BBC reporting on the home Secretary announcing extra funding to target enforcement of motoring laws. Increased oil prices just bumps up the cost of living not just through petrol price increases but other products that are at least partly oil derived.

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Re: This should be good news

Postby pwa » 5 Jun 2018, 9:35am

As a cyclist and a motorist I believe having fuel prices at a level where people think about how much they need to use the car is a good thing.

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Re: This should be good news

Postby Tangled Metal » 5 Jun 2018, 9:46am

It's a balancing act, too high economic damage, too low and motor culture like USA. However I don't think the high UK fuel pump prices has reduced the use of motorised vehicles significantly. The majority probably pay up, the minority who have considered reduced car use might be better pursuaded by improving cycling or public transport provision.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: This should be good news

Postby [XAP]Bob » 5 Jun 2018, 9:48am

For many people, there is little alternative to the car for the majority of journeys they have to make, so it is therefore very difficult to avoid feeling the pinch of rising pump prices.


Rubbish - for many people they can't imagine an alternative - because they don't feel the pinch nearly enough.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Re: This should be good news

Postby Tangled Metal » 5 Jun 2018, 11:19am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
For many people, there is little alternative to the car for the majority of journeys they have to make, so it is therefore very difficult to avoid feeling the pinch of rising pump prices.


Rubbish - for many people they can't imagine an alternative - because they don't feel the pinch nearly enough.

I guess we'll have to agree to differ on this.

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Re: This should be good news

Postby 661-Pete » 5 Jun 2018, 11:54am

I think of 'the alternative' a lot of the time. I've now got back into a pattern of regular journeys to and from Lewes (about 10 miles from where I live) - for the first time since I retired - hooray! I intend to do this journey by bike whenever possible. To be honest, I need the extra cycling... Second choice will be train (although what with The.Almighty.Train.Timetable.Hoo.Ha... I can't be sure of the trains any more... :evil: ). Car would be a last-resort third choice - partly because of the difficulty of parking in Lewes (when I was at work there, my workplace had its own car park - but I'm not going to work any more).

But I'm not dancing in the streets over the fuel price hikes. We're due to make one of our regular trips to France in the next couple of weeks, and that's something that's only practicable for us in the car. I'm now looking to see whether it's better to fuel up my diesel* on this side or the other side of the Channel. Trouble is, fuel price has a knock-on effect on food and other commodity prices. Just another facet of inflation.

*Yes - I still have one, sorry! Try to use it as little as possible - except on the autoroutes. Waiting for the 'scrappage' scheme to come in - if ever..... :?
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Re: This should be good news

Postby [XAP]Bob » 5 Jun 2018, 2:17pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
For many people, there is little alternative to the car for the majority of journeys they have to make, so it is therefore very difficult to avoid feeling the pinch of rising pump prices.


Rubbish - for many people they can't imagine an alternative - because they don't feel the pinch nearly enough.

I guess we'll have to agree to differ on this.


Average trip distance in 2013 (the first year that came up on my google search) was just 7 miles.
Given that some trips will be *far* larger that this, and that there is absolute lower limit to trip distance, I suggest that the count of trips *below* this is a significant majority. And when you are looking at journeys of just 5 miles there is a well known alternative (at least it's well known around here).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: This should be good news

Postby Tangled Metal » 5 Jun 2018, 2:44pm

I didn't realise that distance is the only criteria to determine whether cycling is the best transport option. It's a simple thing to look at figures and come up with a conclusion. A statistician's approach. If you know any sociologists you'll get a different outlook on things. Looking at the human and societal factors you'll see it's not at simple as 5 miles or less ride a bike.

I can ride to work my partner needs the car. Reason? Trip one way to drop dog off, other way to drop child off, other way to work with fixed timelines to fit it all in. Get up early? Dog and child drop off times fixed, work start times fixed to meet hours of the job. Statistics say distance off each journey is perfect for cycling. Human factors rule it out.

Seriously, it would be interesting to see a study on alternatives to car use carried out by sociologists. Statistics are just a part of the narrative behind transport options.

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Re: This should be good news

Postby mercalia » 5 Jun 2018, 3:47pm

I would like an electric motor bike

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Re: This should be good news

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jun 2018, 4:06pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
For many people, there is little alternative to the car for the majority of journeys they have to make, so it is therefore very difficult to avoid feeling the pinch of rising pump prices.


Rubbish - for many people they can't imagine an alternative - because they don't feel the pinch nearly enough.

They can't imagine an alternative because they've been painted into a corner by bad public transport and a fear of cycling on UK roads.
We can go on all we(as cyclists)like about how safe cycling is,but if it's perceived as dangerous by those that don't currently cycle and as the present p*** poor train services are anything to go by people are forced to use the car.
Add to that a government that's doing nothing for cycling or public transport but who thinks the only way forward is to build more roads :?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: This should be good news

Postby [XAP]Bob » 5 Jun 2018, 4:31pm

Tangled Metal wrote:I didn't realise that distance is the only criteria to determine whether cycling is the best transport option. It's a simple thing to look at figures and come up with a conclusion. A statistician's approach. If you know any sociologists you'll get a different outlook on things. Looking at the human and societal factors you'll see it's not at simple as 5 miles or less ride a bike.

I can ride to work my partner needs the car. Reason? Trip one way to drop dog off, other way to drop child off, other way to work with fixed timelines to fit it all in. Get up early? Dog and child drop off times fixed, work start times fixed to meet hours of the job. Statistics say distance off each journey is perfect for cycling. Human factors rule it out.

Seriously, it would be interesting to see a study on alternatives to car use carried out by sociologists. Statistics are just a part of the narrative behind transport options.



It's not the only criteria, and I never said it was.
But given that most car journeys are single occupant, and most car journeys are very short - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with a pretty good idea.

I'm sure you can come up with all sorts of reasons that you have to use a car if you really want to - just as I come up with ways to make journeys work (wether that's a 15mile commute or a 60/80 mile weekend visit).
Why does the dog need dropping off? Why can't it run alongside a bike to wherever it's going (or just stay at home, like most other pets).
Why don't you take the dog (or child) on your way instead?
Why not change the location of one of said drop offs, maybe changing supplier of one of those services?
Maybe use a tandem and trailer for the dog, even adding e-assist...

Don't get me wrong - I'm not expecting you to justify your partner's decision, nor to come up with complex reasons why none of the options above are feasible.
I will stand by my assertion that the majority of car journeys could be replaced by either shank's pony or a pedal cycle - and the fact that people can't see that is not exactly a great advert for the 'freedom' of the motor car.

Despite the cost of fuel the incremental cost of using a car that is sat on the road outside a house is still much smaller than the cost to society of each use of that car - and so the person paying the smaller cost will continue to do so.
Last edited by [XAP]Bob on 5 Jun 2018, 4:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: This should be good news

Postby [XAP]Bob » 5 Jun 2018, 4:35pm

661-Pete wrote:But I'm not dancing in the streets over the fuel price hikes. We're due to make one of our regular trips to France in the next couple of weeks, and that's something that's only practicable for us in the car. I'm now looking to see whether it's better to fuel up my diesel* on this side or the other side of the Channel. Trouble is, fuel price has a knock-on effect on food and other commodity prices. Just another facet of inflation.



This is the main reason it isn't good news... nothing to do with car usage, but haulage.

It's inconvenient for car users who have journeys that can't reasonably be done any other way - but it's economically damaging (and most economically damaging to those least well off) as a result of the knock on from the haulage industry.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: This should be good news

Postby brynpoeth » 5 Jun 2018, 6:02pm

Diesel may well come back in favour sometime

I filled up may car, was pleased to see that fuel was so expensive, I gladly pay taxes. I was more pleased to see even higher prices a few days later
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Re: This should be good news

Postby Username » 5 Jun 2018, 8:45pm

reohn2 wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
For many people, there is little alternative to the car for the majority of journeys they have to make, so it is therefore very difficult to avoid feeling the pinch of rising pump prices.


Rubbish - for many people they can't imagine an alternative - because they don't feel the pinch nearly enough.

They can't imagine an alternative because they've been painted into a corner by bad public transport and a fear of cycling on UK roads.
We can go on all we(as cyclists)like about how safe cycling is,but if it's perceived as dangerous by those that don't currently cycle and as the present p*** poor train services are anything to go by people are forced to use the car.
Add to that a government that's doing nothing for cycling or public transport but who thinks the only way forward is to build more roads :?


More roads would be helpful, but its only a factor. I see the roads as a glass, and vehicles as water. Now when I get a glass of water I turn the tap on until the glass is nearly full, then turn it off. Using this analogy, whats happening with Britains roads is that the glass is more or less full and the tap has been left on.

A possible solution to this problem would be to limit the amount of driving tests available. For example, another slot for someone to take a driving test would open up when another driver has passed away, been banned, jailed or emigrated etc. The logistics of this system would likely be messy, but I see no other way other than to just keep the tap on.
This is a problem exacerbated by the changes to the motorcycle testing procedure, which basically results in bikers having to take multiple tests. I would revert back to the previous way and not have a limit on 2 wheelers going for a test. Am I biased? Quite possibly, but the logic here is that bikes take up much less space than cars. Congestion would be much less of a problem if every car was a motorbike. There is no perfect solution but this is the best one I can come up with.