E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
gnvqsos
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E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby gnvqsos » 11 Jun 2018, 8:56pm

I am really puzzled why anyone should choose to buy such a bike.In my opinion they are similat to those things ridden round by OAPs,and the less fortunate-I think they are dubbed nobiity scooters,presumable because the peers,knight and dames once had sole claim to their use.These people seem to flout all rules and ride then round shops,on pavements and even venture into pubs.Theyb show very little care for others,and in some cases they park up and head off on foot.Do you have to have a notifiable imediment to get a free scooter and do they need licenses like ther road(and pavement) users.To be honest I saw my first advert for insurance on daytime TV during an old rescreening of Bilko.Itv was very fitting that Saga provide the cover and readers of the Daily Mail can get vouchers to use for a no claims discount.

reohn2
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby reohn2 » 11 Jun 2018, 9:10pm

Remove the blinkers and widen your perspective........
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gnvqsos
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby gnvqsos » 11 Jun 2018, 10:29pm

The purpose of blinkers are to focus and concentrate not to obscure and confuse.It is quite clear that you really do not understand their purpose.

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georgew
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby georgew » 12 Jun 2018, 9:37am

gnvqsos wrote:I am really puzzled why anyone should choose to buy such a bike.In my opinion they are similat to those things ridden round by OAPs,and the less fortunate-I think they are dubbed nobiity scooters,presumable because the peers,knight and dames once had sole claim to their use.These people seem to flout all rules and ride then round shops,on pavements and even venture into pubs.Theyb show very little care for others,and in some cases they park up and head off on foot.Do you have to have a notifiable imediment to get a free scooter and do they need licenses like ther road(and pavement) users.To be honest I saw my first advert for insurance on daytime TV during an old rescreening of Bilko.Itv was very fitting that Saga provide the cover and readers of the Daily Mail can get vouchers to use for a no claims discount.



Really......try this.

After cycle-touring for over fifty years, I suffered two heart attacks, a stroke, and having knackered knees, normal cycling became very difficult if not impossible. In an effort to rejoin my cycling friends on at least moderate, runs I converted one of my bikes to e-assist which meant I still had to pedal but had enough help to keep up.

Reading your post, I'm going to assume that you are a young person, or at least someone who has yet to experience any type of disability and that perhaps accounts for your lack of sensitivity on this subject. When young we live as if we are immortal and there is good reason for this.......but in reality, we are just a hair-breadth away from some unforeseen disaster which could change our life entirely.

reohn2
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby reohn2 » 12 Jun 2018, 9:45am

gnvqsos wrote:The purpose of blinkers are to focus and concentrate not to obscure and confuse.It is quite clear that you really do not understand their purpose.

As with a post such as the OP a barbed response is the only one I can offer.

I've long thought e-bikes,and e-scooters to a lesser extent,are a boon to personal transportation in certain circumstances and for certain people who need or just want the assistance offered by such machines.
When the time came due to Mrs R2's disability we had no hesitation in investing in an electric kit to fit to our tandem.
We haven't regretted it.
Or perhaps in your world anyone who feels they need a little electric assistance for whatever reason,be it disability or just because they wish it,should either grin and bear a "real" bike or just buy a car?

As for your unnecessary and equally barbed comments on mobility scooters and their use,yes I dare say there are some unthinking uncaring people using them,personally I've yet to come across any.But their use is a need(the clue is in the the name)to help people continue an independent and as active a life as they can.
Or would you have them sit at home and watch the world pass by their window,becoming more depressed as a result?
Or maybe be a burden on their friends,family or the welfare system for their everyday needs?
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hemo
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby hemo » 12 Jun 2018, 8:12pm

I have to agree with most if not all responses, the OP has his view and prospective however he does appear to be looking through his rose tinted glasses. For my part I use ebikes as I'm stuffed with inclines and hills with my asthma but can cope quite happily like most on level ground and makes my 70 milers enjoyable.
If it aids and gets folk out on bikes it has to be far better for some exercise then doing as most do and take the easy option of the car.

Mountgrove
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Ebikes : The means justifes the end !

Postby Mountgrove » 12 Jun 2018, 9:47pm

Hello, I have been riding an ebike for 3 years. So I thought I would add my conclusions.
I bought a european (Swiss) ebike for £2k in 2015. This is above average in price but for that I got an average front suspension hybrid bike but above average motor and battery. (Panasonic motor and battery , Shimano Nexus 8 speed hub, Schwalbe Marathon tyres and I added a Cane Creek suspension seat post and Brookes saddle for extra comfort). Plus I got 2 years warranty on the battery (The single most important component is the battery and the amount of Ah).

My background. 55yo male, average health, overweight and sciatica in my right leg. I cycled for many years in London but lost interest after being knocked over in 1998. I now live in Birmingham and work full time. My wife and I were part time carers for my mother who passed away. That is when I decided to buy an ebike. My rationale was "Walking up several flights of stairs is pointless if you could walk up a moving escalator" and "An ebike turns a slow cyclist into an average cyclist"
So began my journey into ebike territory and I soon realised things are not as simple as they seem !

Here is what I like.
1. They are fantastic for going uphill!
2. I am not a morning person and it is a quick and easy way to get to work. I dislike public transport and it is unreliable. It takes half the time on my ebike. (4 miles each way).
3. It is safe. I can sit upright and be safe in the knowledge I have enough acceleration if I need it at the press of a button (the pedal assist has 3 levels and I normally use the lowest so I have more power if required at the lights and roundabouts).
4. It is usable in almost all weather . (Very cold weather impedes battery performance and longevity).
5. It is a fun, flexible, practical commuting solution. There is nowhere to park a car in my office (City centre in Birmingham).
6. I easily carry lunch, laptop and clothing (around 5 or 6 kgs). Every day to work and back.
7. It has broadened my horizons. I visited Cotswolds many times using the train and ebike . Stratford to Cheltenham and the reverse. In the future I plan to go to Derbyshire and the Lakes.
8. Recharging takes 3hrs if it is about half empty and costs zilch (well maybe 4p!).
9. I recharge twice a week and that easily gives me 55 miles.
10. Although I was aware an ebike would not make me fitter. At least it is an easy albeit ironic way to get to the gym or swimming pool!!
11. Let me say it again they are fantastic for going uphill !!

Now here is what I DISLIKE !
1. Ebikes are heavy . Mine weighs well over 22kg. So lifting it on and off trains is a pain. Let alone trying to hang it on one of those meat hook devices on some Virgin services !
2. They are expensive. If you want a carbon frame ebike with a good motor and battery - it will cost £4k or more. This will STILL weigh around 17kg.
3. Home insurance does not cover ebikes for electric motor or electric battery failure. You will need additional insurance .
4. The cost of an ebike is about one third for battery, motor and bike. But the Battery is the single most expensive component and costs a lot to replace.(Retailers do not inform you of this). For example if you wanted an ebike with a 4 or 5 year battery warranty it is virtually impossible. You would be charged the cost of a second new battery in addition to the bike. So this is how they make huge profits.
5. If the battery failed or ran out of charge - you are stuffed. (The motors are pretty reliable in comparison). This happened to me just outside Cheltenham at the foot of a steep climb called Cleeve hill! So I had to push the damn thing and my loaded panniers uphill, then coasted downhill (they are very quick downhill because of the weight and weight distribution).
6. Needless to say riding a fully loaded ebike (without assistance) uphill is virtually impossible unless you used a granny gear of 25-20 gear inches or less all the way! (So about 2.5 mph in other words slower than getting off and pushing!).
7. Compare the prices of an Ebike battery with that of an electric car battery (Nissan Leaf). You will soon see how the ebike manufacturers make huge profits. Of course it is possible to repair batteries (known as "re-celling" but they do not assist 3rd parties in this respect. For example they do not supply circuit diagrams to the repairers). They claim re-celling is unsafe . But they also claim their batteries are perfectly safe for usage !
Typical Ebike (Panasonic) battery (1 x 36.0V x 12.0Ah) = 0.432 KWh price is £ 700 or 0.6 Wh/£.
Nissan leaf battery (192 x 3.65V x 56.3Ah) = 39.46 kWh price is £4000 or 9.9 Wh/£.
As you can see the price of the ebike battery in Wh is about tenfold compared to a typical battery for an EV. Hence the massive profit margins.
8. To find a good ebike battery repairer or "re-celler" is quite difficult - they all bemoan the lack of technical support from the big manufacturers eg Bosch, Panasonic and BMZ. Especially if they have to repair the all important BMS (Battery Management System) which is vital to the battery's operation.
Astonishingly I know of only ONE in the UK that is universally recommended by Pedelec enthusiasts. That is truly mind blowing.
9. Minor niggle - Ebike assistance is limited to a top speed of 15.5 mph. This means most road cycles can easily overtake an ebike - as trying to achieve a speed greater than 15.5mph takes more effort than it does on a normal bike!
10. Perhaps another minor niggle - they are aesthetically less pleasing than a regular bike. The battery unless frame mounted and concealed (which can be a drawback if you want to also be able to remove and charge it) are rather bulky and obtrusive looking.

So after 3 years of ebike usage - I am now ready to move into my next phase and go human only pedal power! I still love the ebike as a concept but I have concluded that the many benefits are outweighed by the expensive battery and battery replacement. I will always have an ebike and I like the option but I no longer see it as my only option. Ebikes somewhat over simplify cycling in terms of what you can achieve with your own energy.

I have experimented with my commute :
1.Regular hybrid fully loaded - under 29mins good weather . 34mins bad weather.
2.Ebike fully loaded WITHOUT pedal assist - under 36mins good weather . 39mins bad weather.
(I could easily reduce the above times if I cycled more regularly without assistance).
3.Ebike fully loaded WITH pedal assist - under 17mins good weather. 17mins bad weather. (Just use more pedal-assist!)

My new task is to choose an all round touring/commuting bike. But that is another story !
Cycling is just so much fun and so varied. I am glad I took the ebike plunge but it was only a means to a justifiable and very glorious "end"!

Please feel free to comment and I would like to hear from others who have made an ebike "journey" !

Tangled Metal
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Jun 2018, 10:06pm

gnvqsos wrote:The purpose of blinkers are to focus and concentrate not to obscure and confuse.It is quite clear that you really do not understand their purpose.

He said remove the blinkers and widen your views. If blinkers don't narrow your views then how do they concentrate them on what can be seen?

Fair comment tbh. If you took a wider view of it, perhaps look at things from the viewpoint of people with different needs and wants to you then you might widen your view on the topic and see there's something positive about them. Certainly e-bikes.

Personally not for me but I can see value in them. It's possibly my personal pride that stops me getting one (that and the cost of course). I don't want to think I need or have use for assistance.

Truth is I don't need it but doesn't mean it couldn't add value to my cycling to have a motor for when I need it. Right now I'm getting into recumbents. If you know what they're like you'll appreciate with a summer tour on it and not enough time to get my recumbent legs a motor for the hills would be helpful.

I knew a guy at work, not very fit but wanted to get fitter. Limited time meant commuting by bike was a good thing for him but for the distance he couldn't manage without his e-bike. So he got one and cycled every day for the 6 months he worked at the company. Did him some good as he looked fitter even only 6 months in.

If you can't see their benefits or use them quite simply blinkered view applies quite neatly to you.

gnvqsos
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby gnvqsos » 12 Jun 2018, 11:52pm

After cycle-touring for over fifty years, I suffered two heart attacks, a stroke, and having knackered knees, normal cycling became very difficult if not impossible. In an effort to rejoin my cycling friends on at least moderate, runs I converted one of my bikes to e-assist which meant I still had to pedal but had enough help to keep up.

Reading your post, I'm going to assume that you are a young person, or at least someone who has yet to experience any type of disability and that perhaps accounts for your lack of sensitivity on this subject. When young we live as if we are immortal and there is good reason for this.......but in reality, we are just a hair-breadth away from some unforeseen disaster which could change our life entirely.


Your assumption is wrong but quite understandable.I was simply expressing surprise at the proliferation of ebikes,especially when the motorbike provides such cool competition.I am sorry your ailments have imposed some restrictions on your choice of transportI suppose these issues might have afflicted you aty a younger age had you not been a regular.

gnvqsos
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby gnvqsos » 13 Jun 2018, 12:02am

He said remove the blinkers and widen your views. If blinkers don't narrow your views then how do they concentrate them on what can be seen?
Fair comment tbh. If you took a wider view of it, perhaps look at things from the viewpoint of people with different needs and wants to you then you might widen your view on the topic and see there's something positive about them. Certainly e-bikes.
Personally not for me but I can see value in them. It's possibly my personal pride that stops me getting one (that and the cost of course). I don't want to think I need or have use for assistance.
Truth is I don't need it but doesn't mean it couldn't add value to my cycling to have a motor for when I need it. Right now I'm getting into recumbents. If you know what they're like you'll appreciate with a summer tour on it and not enough time to get my recumbent legs a motor for the hills would be helpful.
I knew a guy at work, not very fit but wanted to get fitter. Limited time meant commuting by bike was a good thing for him but for the distance he couldn't manage without his e-bike. So he got one and cycled every day for the 6 months he worked at the company. Did him some good as he looked fitter even only 6 months in.
If you can't see their benefits or use them quite simply blinkered view applies quite neatly to you.

I can see how some people might take the easier option,but I feel they are likely to go the way of the Sinclair C5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQetm_qWDg

If you would like a side bet.I will wager a pair of Dia-Compe brake levers that few people other than wannabe train-spotters will be seen on our streets using these grey elephants.To ride on of these is the cycling equivalent of consuming all food in puree form using a feeding tube-its has the same effect(movement) but robs the user of true satisfaction and enjoyment.

gnvqsos
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby gnvqsos » 13 Jun 2018, 12:17am

As for your unnecessary and equally barbed comments on mobility scooters and their use,yes I dare say there are some unthinking uncaring people using them,personally I've yet to come across any.But their use is a need(the clue is in the the name)to help people continue an independent and as active a life as they can.
Or would you have them sit at home and watch the world pass by their window,becoming more depressed as a result?
Or maybe be a burden on their friends,family or the welfare system for their everyday needs?


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I cycle therefore I am.
I was trying to make the point that the arean of mobility aids is unregulated,and that our society does little to acknowledge their existence.I will address your three questions
1.There is no established link between looking out of windows at people passing,and poor mental health-you could offend many by suggesting that their circumstances are restrictingbtheir experiences and happiness.
2.I do not think family members necessarily see their immobile relatives as a burden,though perhaps you are commenting on your own experience.
3.I am not an advocate of euthanasia ,imposed by a dictat,but Imdo feel people have the right to seek a humane release from unmitigated pain and suffering.
Can you explain to me how a view can be anything but judgemental?A view in my experience is a synonym for an opinion,and by definition is derived from the act of judgement.Do you feel it is wrong to be puritanical,and if so why?

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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby mjr » 13 Jun 2018, 7:34am

You are Shane Sutton and I claim my five pounds!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby Vorpal » 13 Jun 2018, 7:52am

Here in Norway, many people see ebikes as a good way to get people out of their cars, rather than something to replace bicycles.

Certainly the number of people cycling does seem to be going up with the sale of ebikes. I've seen statistics but I don't remember most of them. One I do remember is the in 10 years, the sale of ebikes has gone from around 5,000 in 2007 to 40,000 in 2017.
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reohn2
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jun 2018, 12:20pm

gnvqsos wrote:I was trying to make the point that the arean of mobility aids is unregulated,and that our society does little to acknowledge their existence.I will address your three questions
1.There is no established link between looking out of windows at people passing,and poor mental health-you could offend many by suggesting that their circumstances are restrictingbtheir experiences and happiness.

The lack of mobility means all to often a lack of social intercourse,go figure.

2.I do not think family members necessarily see their immobile relatives as a burden,though perhaps you are commenting on your own experience.

I am certainly commenting on my own experience on a number of counts.
A burden isn't always unbearable,but certainly isn't always desirable and not if it can be alleviated by an aid,which is better for both parties.
That's why an aid such as a mobility scooter can ease the burden of relatives who may need to attend to someone,who with such aids in their everyday life their autonomy is maintained and their life more full as a result,see my answer to your first point above.

3.I am not an advocate of euthanasia ,imposed by a dictat,but Imdo feel people have the right to seek a humane release from unmitigated pain and suffering.

Well at least we agree on something.
A disability can be eased by aid(s) and life made more bearable and enjoyable as a result,see above.
Can you explain to me how a view can be anything but judgemental?A view in my experience is a synonym for an opinion,and by definition is derived from the act of judgement.Do you feel it is wrong to be puritanical,and if so why?

A view can be positively or negatively judgemental and similarly so purity.
Purity in this instance implies exclusion which in certain circumstances is desirable though not in this one.
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reohn2
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Re: E-bikes,scooters and motorbkies

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jun 2018, 3:41pm

Thinking a bit more about this thread,was the bicycle itself not met with derision when first made available to the ordinary working wo/man?
Was it not also an aid and improvement to walking as a cheaper form of transport than the horse,widening social as well as other forms of intercourse,diversifying and widening the gene pool as a result as people were less restricted?
Or is that a bit less than puritanical for the OP's taste perhaps?
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