Daytime lights on pedal cycles

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kwackers
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby kwackers » 22 Jan 2011, 12:42pm

rower40 wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I think the difference with cars is that they normally conform when new so if you keep everything properly maintained, you will be compliant, or at least the car will*.


If only.
Many BMWs, Volvos and Volkswagens have flashing tail and brake lights. Most people can't TELL that they're flashing, as they're usually at 100Hz, but some people are susceptible to high-frequency flicker.

The legislation stating that tail and brake lights must be "Steady" has no derogation to allow high-frequency flashing, and has been completely ignored by the manufacturers.

I find the flicker from modern LED tail lights very distracting.

thirdcrank
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby thirdcrank » 22 Jan 2011, 2:42pm

I think that's another difference between the process of legislating for cars and that for pedal cycles. I think the motor vehicle manufacturers just ring up the ministry of transport and tell them to change it to what they want.

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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby downfader » 22 Jan 2011, 4:55pm

thirdcrank wrote:I think that's another difference between the process of legislating for cars and that for pedal cycles. I think the motor vehicle manufacturers just ring up the ministry of transport and tell them to change it to what they want.


I remember some hoo-hah abot ten years back where an MP suggested manufacturers put speed limiting devices on all new cars in the name of safety and prevention of crime. People like Ford and the AA went bananas. :? I dont recall the idea having been raised in Parliament since.

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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby SilverBadge » 22 Jan 2011, 7:59pm

downfader wrote:I remember some hoo-hah abot ten years back where an MP suggested manufacturers put speed limiting devices on all new cars in the name of safety and prevention of crime. People like Ford and the AA went bananas. :? I dont recall the idea having been raised in Parliament since.
There has been some suggestion of putting speed limiters on motorbikes in the last couple of years, to the point of demonstrating working systems, with predictable squeals of outrage from MCN.

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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby downfader » 22 Jan 2011, 8:06pm

SilverBadge wrote:
downfader wrote:I remember some hoo-hah abot ten years back where an MP suggested manufacturers put speed limiting devices on all new cars in the name of safety and prevention of crime. People like Ford and the AA went bananas. :? I dont recall the idea having been raised in Parliament since.
There has been some suggestion of putting speed limiters on motorbikes in the last couple of years, to the point of demonstrating working systems, with predictable squeals of outrage from MCN.


Yes I remember something of that too. My Brother and Uncle ride motorbikes. There have been some quite public "floggings" of speeding motorcyclists down here of late, the news has had a run of badboys on bikes this last year. IIRC a recent survey found that around 40% of motorcyclists admitted to speeding excessively, cant remember who the poll was by though.


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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby [XAP]Bob » 24 Jan 2011, 7:57am

kwackers wrote:
rower40 wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I think the difference with cars is that they normally conform when new so if you keep everything properly maintained, you will be compliant, or at least the car will*.


If only.
Many BMWs, Volvos and Volkswagens have flashing tail and brake lights. Most people can't TELL that they're flashing, as they're usually at 100Hz, but some people are susceptible to high-frequency flicker.

The legislation stating that tail and brake lights must be "Steady" has no derogation to allow high-frequency flashing, and has been completely ignored by the manufacturers.

I find the flicker from modern LED tail lights very distracting.

Saw a car with a url on the back yesterday, thought 'that must be illegal'

It was something like flashingbrakelights.co.uk
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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squeaker
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby squeaker » 24 Jan 2011, 9:29am

rower40 wrote:The legislation stating that tail and brake lights must be "Steady" has no derogation to allow high-frequency flashing, and has been completely ignored by the manufacturers.

And low frequency flashing?
"42"

downfader
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby downfader » 24 Jan 2011, 3:48pm

squeaker wrote:
rower40 wrote:The legislation stating that tail and brake lights must be "Steady" has no derogation to allow high-frequency flashing, and has been completely ignored by the manufacturers.

And low frequency flashing?


Marketing based on fear if you ask me. Much like every other talisman effect I see on the roads :|

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby [XAP]Bob » 24 Jan 2011, 4:36pm

downfader wrote:
squeaker wrote:
rower40 wrote:The legislation stating that tail and brake lights must be "Steady" has no derogation to allow high-frequency flashing, and has been completely ignored by the manufacturers.

And low frequency flashing?


Marketing based on fear if you ask me. Much like every other talisman effect I see on the roads :|

More importantly deliberate marketing of an illegal system.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

fastpedaller
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby fastpedaller » 4 Sep 2018, 11:44pm

kwackers wrote:
rower40 wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I think the difference with cars is that they normally conform when new so if you keep everything properly maintained, you will be compliant, or at least the car will*.


If only.
Many BMWs, Volvos and Volkswagens have flashing tail and brake lights. Most people can't TELL that they're flashing, as they're usually at 100Hz, but some people are susceptible to high-frequency flicker.

The legislation stating that tail and brake lights must be "Steady" has no derogation to allow high-frequency flashing, and has been completely ignored by the manufacturers.

I find the flicker from modern LED tail lights very distracting.


I've also noticed that many of the LED indicators on cars have a very narrow angle of visibility - when viewed at anything more than about 15 degrees they are almost invisible! I'm a kit car enthusiast, and our cars have to pass a special test called "Individual Vehicle Approval" before registration for the road (which I fully endorse), and myself and others have noticed there are several matters (such as LED indicators) which would mean that some modern production cars would fail if the test was applied to them, however they (presumably) pass type approval. For comparison IIRC the angle of visibility of indicators is 45 degrees in either direction.

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mjr
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby mjr » 5 Sep 2018, 11:55am

I remembered another problem with daytime lights on cars yesterday as I was cycling along, looking over my shoulder before riding across a side road (which is a contortion which no cycling-friendly place would expect me to do, but that's another topic).

It's very difficult to distinguish the daytime light from the front indicator at a glance, especially if the daytime light is yellowy (incandescent or warm-white LED) rather than blue-white (some LEDs), and you can't even count whether there's one light or two because the daytime light ON THAT SIDE ONLY switches off when the indicator is on! Who thought that was a good idea?!? Then on some cars, the indicator and daytime light are right next to each other and similar shapes, making it even more difficult.

I would love to make those responsible for these silly things ride along a cycleway which gives way to side roads while I left-hook them, indicating... I'm not usually inclined to violence, but I'd make an exception this once. :twisted:
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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kwackers
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby kwackers » 5 Sep 2018, 12:26pm

mjr wrote:and you can't even count whether there's one light or two because the daytime light ON THAT SIDE ONLY switches off when the indicator is on! Who thought that was a good idea?!?

Me! I do!
I don't really see the problem, there are always two lights - just that sometimes it's amber and not white...

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mjr
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby mjr » 5 Sep 2018, 12:49pm

kwackers wrote:
mjr wrote:and you can't even count whether there's one light or two because the daytime light ON THAT SIDE ONLY switches off when the indicator is on! Who thought that was a good idea?!?

Me! I do!
I don't really see the problem, there are always two lights - just that sometimes it's amber and not white...

Only one light is lit on the turning side. So do you think you can reliably tell the difference between SAE Yellow (modern indicators - ECE stopped using amber years ago) and the yellowy warm-white daytime lights? I hope you don't discover you're wrong in practice because that could be painful!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

kwackers
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby kwackers » 5 Sep 2018, 12:54pm

mjr wrote:Only one light is lit on the turning side. So do you think you can reliably tell the difference between SAE Yellow (modern indicators - ECE stopped using amber years ago) and the yellowy warm-white daytime lights? I hope you don't discover you're wrong in practice because that could be painful!

Yellowy warm-white daytime lights?
Never seen them, they're always bluey white ime.

But yeah, easily. Not only can I tell the difference via colour but the light physically moves. Audi's for example turn off the DLR and the indicator animates instead in a physically different position.

So it's a different colour, in a different place and is animating to boot!

It reminds me of a conversation I once had were someone claimed that folk who only had monochromatic vision wouldn't be safe using traffic lights!