dont ask a copper

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
mercalia
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby mercalia » 6 Oct 2018, 3:46pm

simonhill wrote:A recent report by (I think) Devon and Cornwall police said they spent 40% of their time on mental problems. It's not only cuts to the actual police service.

Nonetheless, I think the Kingston police were woeful in their dealings with the woman in question. Also, the mere fact that vigilantism is being mentioned is worrying.


ah its a shame that the thief's name and address wasnt published but I suppose the scum bag would then get one of those greasy lawyers to sue for deformation. I am a bit surprised he let the lady drive off on "his" bike, I wouldnt until I had the readies in my mitts. vigilantism? Ah thats the effect of watching too much Yank tv - DC's The Green Arrow :wink:

landsurfer
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Re: dont ask a copper

Postby landsurfer » 6 Oct 2018, 3:54pm

Cunobelin wrote:Which still remains a personal attack on members of the forum based on personal bias, as opposed to knowledge of the individials

This is fast becoming a matter for the mods


Have any members of Her Majesty's Constabulary complained of my posts ?
It is a forum, as you point out, how would i know the individuals ?
The Mods ? Only because of your posts Sir ... I agree bring in the Mods ...
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Graham
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby Graham » 6 Oct 2018, 4:25pm

I think Cunobelin has clearly made his point, as has Landsurfer. Thus, they can stand as posted ( above ).

Is the situation not predictable ?? . . as with many public services . . . ever increasing demand, but finite and/or shrinking resources.

I propose that we are now well past some optimum point where . . .
- in the past the vast majority of the population had some idea of "the greater good" and could restrain themself from criminal misdeeds.
Also, community expectations . .. and many other constraining factors . shame of being caught . . etc. . . . .
Even then, there would have been too few police.

- Now, a great many people know that they can get away with a lot of formerly unacceptable behaviour.

- Police staffing costs will only ever escalate. The population only vote for politicians who promise NOT to take more money out of their pocket.

And there we have it.

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cyclemad
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby cyclemad » 6 Oct 2018, 5:19pm

personal attack on members?????

TOSH !

This is about free speech and free expression ......

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: dont ask a copper

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 6 Oct 2018, 6:22pm

landsurfer wrote:Any police officers on this forum should be ashamed of themselves ..................


I'm a retired copper, and in all my years I never did anything to be ashamed of. I doubt you could hold aMondanock PR24NX baton correctly, so I don't think I'll be taking policing lessons from you! :lol: I got medically retired after receiving serious injuries protecting a crossing patrol warden outside a school from a good beating by a motorist. I'm a well upholstered, 6'4", 18+ stone laddie, and ended up in Hossy with broken bones. The lollipop lady was a lightly build pensioner of short stature, and would likely have been killed under such an onslaught if I hadn't sought to protect her - whats the most heroic or significant thing you've ever done at work?

The police have to prioritise, and if it's a choice between protecting life and limb, or visiting a burglary, which do you think they should choose? Perfect they absolutely are not, but what you know about policing could be written on a postage stamp with a lawn roller. For all your sarcky words and holier than thou talk you'll still gleefully call 999 and beg and plead for help if some bad lad came to your house looking to hurt you.
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cyclemad
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Re: dont ask a copper

Postby cyclemad » 6 Oct 2018, 6:45pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:
landsurfer wrote:Any police officers on this forum should be ashamed of themselves ..................


I'm a retired copper, and in all my years I never did anything to be ashamed of. I doubt you could hold aMondanock PR24NX baton correctly, so I don't think I'll be taking policing lessons from you! :lol: I got medically retired after receiving serious injuries protecting a crossing patrol warden outside a school from a good beating by a motorist. I'm a well upholstered, 6'4", 18+ stone laddie, and ended up in Hossy with broken bones. The lollipop lady was a lightly build pensioner of short stature, and would likely have been killed under such an onslaught if I hadn't sought to protect her - whats the most heroic or significant thing you've ever done at work?

The police have to prioritise, and if it's a choice between protecting life and limb, or visiting a burglary, which do you think they should choose? Perfect they absolutely are not, but what you know about policing could be written on a postage stamp with a lawn roller. For all your sarcky words and holier than thou talk you'll still gleefully call 999 and beg and plead for help if some bad lad came to your house looking to hurt you.



Totally agree :)

mercalia
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Re: dont ask a copper

Postby mercalia » 6 Oct 2018, 7:15pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:
landsurfer wrote:Any police officers on this forum should be ashamed of themselves ..................


I'm a retired copper, and in all my years I never did anything to be ashamed of. I doubt you could hold aMondanock PR24NX baton correctly, so I don't think I'll be taking policing lessons from you! :lol: I got medically retired after receiving serious injuries protecting a crossing patrol warden outside a school from a good beating by a motorist. I'm a well upholstered, 6'4", 18+ stone laddie, and ended up in Hossy with broken bones. The lollipop lady was a lightly build pensioner of short stature, and would likely have been killed under such an onslaught if I hadn't sought to protect her - whats the most heroic or significant thing you've ever done at work?

The police have to prioritise, and if it's a choice between protecting life and limb, or visiting a burglary, which do you think they should choose? Perfect they absolutely are not, but what you know about policing could be written on a postage stamp with a lawn roller. For all your sarcky words and holier than thou talk you'll still gleefully call 999 and beg and plead for help if some bad lad came to your house looking to hurt you.


fair enough but it sounds like that only happened to you once in how many years: if you were every day or most days risking life and limb then your comments stand but how frequent were such situations?

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cyclemad
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby cyclemad » 6 Oct 2018, 7:21pm

I am trying very hard to contain myself after the last comment.

so you are asking How many times does a cop risk their life ??

yes its all paperwork , donuts, dealing with lost dogs, helping old ladies across the road, kids pinching apples ????

wake up !!

The answer is every time they report for duty...every time they walk out of their front door ...every time time they walk out the Nick....Every time they attend that call from the public.....every time they stop and speak to someone...every time someone approaches them.....
spat at , assaulted , threatened , terrorist target, shall I go on ????

Each call is risk assessed but you cannot assess the unknown....


Again I would ask ...WOULD YOU DO THEIR JOB ????
Last edited by cyclemad on 6 Oct 2018, 7:28pm, edited 1 time in total.

landsurfer
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby landsurfer » 6 Oct 2018, 7:27pm

I think the answer is yes ... lots of people would do their job ..me ... I chose the Armed Forces.
Police Officers join by choice ... they want to be in the Police.
To be Police Officers.
It's an attractive, exciting profession.
Nobody forces them to join ... Like the Armed Forces, Fire Service, Ambulance Service .. they join by choice ..
Free will i think it's called ..
We only have so many Police Officers because so many people want to be Police Officers...
Lots of people want to do the job.

Anyway, despite the lack of engagement by a certain group of the Police a lady got her bike back ... Which is nice .... :)
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cyclemad
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby cyclemad » 6 Oct 2018, 7:34pm

they join because its exciting?????

Try sitting with a mental health patient for 10 hours while awaiting a place of safety...

Or a facebook ''hate crime'' where someone has said rude words on social media

Yes there are lots who want to join...but most don't get through the paper sift let alone the training......2 years probation...

Most join to make a difference ....to make our streets a safer place..

Mis information is a great thing.....

The cops on the ground do a fantastic job - its the buffoons in the ivory towers that haven't got a clue

landsurfer
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby landsurfer » 6 Oct 2018, 7:41pm

cyclemad wrote:they join because its exciting?????

Try sitting with a mental health patient for 10 hours while awaiting a place of safety...

Or a facebook ''hate crime'' where someone has said rude words on social media

Yes there are lots who want to join...but most don't get through the paper sift let alone the training......2 years probation...

Most join to make a difference ....to make our streets a safer place..

Mis information is a great thing.....

The cops on the ground do a fantastic job - its the buffoons in the ivory towers that haven't got a clue



My brother is a member of the PSNI .... 21 years ... i know what he thinks of his job .....
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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: dont ask a copper

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 6 Oct 2018, 7:59pm

fair enough but it sounds like that only happened to you once in how many years: if you were every day or most days risking life and limb then your comments stand but how frequent were such situations?


As an average I got assaulted probably several times a year, like most coppers do. Most were minor, and being a "unit" or "swede" even some of the more serious ones weren't so bad. Got 8 stitches in my hand as a result of being attacked with a knife in 2003, just for being a copper. Asidie from the scar I fully recovered from that. How many out there have had someone attempt to murder them while at work?

Been run over deliberately twice - once in a car, and fortunately I went over it and not under. Second time I was deliberately run over by a stolen motorbike - very luckily that went over my chest and my body armour took the brunt of that. Ached a bit the next day but survived. How many out there have been seriously assaulted, multiple times, just for doing a job?

How many out there get assaulted numerous minor times each year, just for being a job?

Given CPR to dying people many times. The hardest thing I have ever done in my life is to tell the Father of a 13 year old girl that I did my best, but when the Death came calling I wasn't good enough. I'd like to see Mr Moanache carry that burden for the rest of his life.

But overall it wasn't an especially remarkable career. Legions of bobbies out there did and still do the same. Even jn redent history, some have died trying. How many accountants or HR officers have died at work protecting the public lately? None I suspect, but I don't go on a public forum and berate them as individuals over it.

Dragged 2 x toddlers from a burning house, getting myself hospitalised with severe smoke inhalation injuries. I got a supernintendos commendation for that - the same year a female ACPO rank officer in our Force got the Queens Policing Medal for doing nothing more dangerous than driving a desk.

It's all cool. I did it because I genuinely wanted to contribute to society, make the proverbial difference, improve some lives for the better, maybe even save a life. Those reasons are personal to me, and me alone. When I meet my maker I can look him in the eye and tell him I really tried.

I dont seek respect, admiration hero worship. None of that is important, you can't eat it or buy stuff with it. What I do expect is the society I so served selflessly for over 3 decades to at least keep a civil tongue when addressing indivuduals officers, particularly moaners that have never themselves made a positive contribution to the lives of others. No, if there's anyone who should be ashamed of themselves it's societies moaners and complainers, who are usually also societies lowest NET moral contributors.
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ChrisButch
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby ChrisButch » 6 Oct 2018, 8:35pm

Thank you.

pete75
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby pete75 » 6 Oct 2018, 10:13pm

Some in this thread are highlighting being a police officer as a dangerous occupation. An officer is far less likely to suffer death or serious injury at work than a farmworker, builder, fisherman,scaffolder, electrician, plumber, miner, quarryman, manufacturing worker and a fair number of other occupations.
The pay isn't so bad either :-
https://www.policeoracle.com/pay_and_co ... cales.html

"The 2017 Police Remuneration Review Body (PRRB) report found that in 2015/16 police pay was six per cent above professional occupations and 41 per cent higher than wages in the wider economy.

More than half of police constables are currently at the top of their pay bracket. Median total earnings for constables and sergeants are £40,000.

Police officers are entitled to membership of a defined benefit pension scheme. Members benefit from employer contributions of 21.3 per cent of their pay towards their pensions on top of their own contribution. All contributing members are able to take their pension by age 60, with the majority able to take a pension sooner.

Officers receive a minimum of 22 days of annual leave, rising with service to 30 days, plus bank holidays as well as flexible working schedules and career breaks."

Without being promoted salaries rise to almost £40,000 pa automatically. Someone of reasonable competence in any job will get promoted and with only a couple of promotions an officer will be on a salary of over £50,000 pa. Salaries can exceed £200,000 per annum. Overtime above normal shift hours is paid at time and a third and bank holiday working attracts double time.

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Cugel
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Re: dont ask a copper ( better url)

Postby Cugel » 6 Oct 2018, 10:34pm

It's a foolish thing to suggest that policemen themselves are somehow shirking their duties in ignoring burglars or other petty criminals. They now have no real choice since there are not so many of them and plenty of disaffected lads (even lasses) to whom burglary and other misdemeanour is part economic necessity and part a raspberry to the crappy socio-economic circumstances into which they have been cast by fate and some fatcats.

Certainly there are some substandard policemen, as there are substandard members of any profession. But even the less-able copper is subject to the unkind blows of the above-mentioned disaffected and worse. Why deny it? A plumber may, statistically, be more likely to suffer a harm but he at least has a chance to avoid it by being diligent.

Personally I have been maltreated by a policeman or two in my yoof, merely for being as yoof. But that was in the 50s and 60s, when everyone mistreated everyone else on a regular basis albeit without undue malice for the most part. All in all, I'd rather have plenty of coppers than a dearth of them.

Of course, the coppers should work for all of us. One sometimes gets the feeling that they work for the fatcats rather harder than they do for the hoi-polloi. Still, that's the law, eh? (One for the fatcat and another for the peasants). Still, they do sometimes see orf a thug or two. If only the thug-making were nipped in the bud, though. Instead we seem to create them in ever-greater numbers these days. The law is slowly becoming "Do what you want shall be the whole of the law". Unless you're interfering with some fracking fatcat's business, that is.

Cugel